D&D 5E Should the Fighter's "Second Wind" ability grant temporary HP instead of regular HP?

[MechaPilot]

I was talking back and forth with someone on the Wotc forums and they were certain right up till the day that the basic pdf would provide support. She has the opposite opinion on a ton of things from me and it wasn't even her concern. She knew though that a lot of people cared about what I cared about. That was her feeling anyway. So we were back and forth about when it would show up. None of use even dreamed that the DMG wouldn't handle what we wanted.

As the poster in question I just want to clarify one thing: it's not that I think there are a large number of people for whom martial and/or inspirational healing is an issue. I don't have any numbers on whether that group of people is large or small, and I won't pretend to speak intelligently about numbers that I don't have. However, I do believe that a lot of people will be judging DDN based on the free pdf, both because it's the first finalized product with character creation and because its lack of cost will make it an appealing entry point.

Because the free pdf is the product that I believe a lot of people (of differing and various playstyles) will use to determine if DDN is right for them, I think it's shortsighted to omit options to replace things that are contentious for certain playstyles. Now, I know that some of these replacements are exceedingly easy to houserule (for example, simply replacing second wind with the toughness feat), and I think it's cool that it is so easy to houserule a replacement or fix. But, as easy as it is, it makes me a little disappointed that at least something as easy and straightforward as "you may replace this ability with the toughness feat" wasn't mentioned.

For any who don't like second wind, I was able to compile the following list of potential replacements and/or fixes for second wind that were suggested by various members of the WotC D&D community.

1) replace second wind with the Toughness feat
2) replace second wind with bonus HPs equal to either the average or the maximum that second wind would allow you to recover
3) replace second with with the ability to add +1 to your AC for a number of rounds equal to your fighter level
4) replace second wind with an ability that lets fighters get more out of any healing that is applied to them (additional healing equal to their Con mod)
5) adjust second wind so that it grants temp HPs instead of actual recovery
6) replace second wind with the ability to give the fighter resistance on the next attack that hits her
7) allow second wind to work only when you are at or below half your HP total

 

[ClauDeDoin]

1) Has anyone even been able to confirm Emerikol's assertion that Mearls has said there will be no replacement options or alternate rules for Second Wind at all? None of the live streams seem to mention this, none of the articles do, and nor does his twitter account. This entire argument has been based on a single (unsubstantiated as best as I can tell) statement by Emerikol. Note that if it was something directly told to you by a developer; that due to the rapid and many iterations of the game, they get their wires crossed often and will talk about a version that has been changed already (Notice how during the livestream, Mearls wanted to see the character sheet before he said anything because he knew he might switch up versions of mechanics in his head).

The relevant Twitter exchange is below . . .

Sword_of_Spirit June 26
mikemearls yusakuasano​ I think part of what people are wondering is if the alternative modules somehow affect second wind?

Mike Mearls
Sword_of_Spirit yusakuasano No - in general, mods affect the core system in ways that ripple back to character abilities.

EDIT: The direct link is https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/482244757180014593

 

[Cybit]

I also think I'm pretty done with responding to at least one person in this thread based on their very biased and flat out insulting comments towards the playtesters. Good to know we that don't count because we don't agree with you. (The thread linked below has repeated posts along this line).

http://community.wizards.com/comment/50751111#comment-50751111

I believe their internal playtesters may not be representative of the playerbase as a whole and this second wind change came out of the private playtest not the packets. Temp hit points was a reaction to negative feedback in the packets about second wind. Sadly they are so unaware of the real issues that underpin various mechanics or they'd have realized that temp hit points were not very satisfying either. Less offensive but not satisfying.

Good to know that we are unaware of the "real" issues that underpin various mechanics. Looking forward to your RPG system.

 

[Cybit]

The relevant Twitter exchange is below . . .

Sword_of_Spirit June 26
mikemearls yusakuasano​ I think part of what people are wondering is if the alternative modules somehow affect second wind?

Mike Mearls
Sword_of_Spirit yusakuasano No - in general, mods affect the core system in ways that ripple back to character abilities.

EDIT: The direct link is https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/482244757180014593

KK, thank ya.

That last part doesn't make much sense to me; if the mods affect the core system in ways that ripple back to character abilities; doesn't that by definition affect character abilities?

 

[ClauDeDoin]

KK, thank ya.

That last part doesn't make much sense to me; if the mods affect the core system in ways that ripple back to character abilities; doesn't that by definition affect character abilities?

It's definitely not as clear as it could be. I read it as Mearls saying that SW isn't going to be modded directly but that, like all character abilities, it could, in theory, be affected by changes to the core healing system. Either way, we obviously don't have the full details, and it may be as simple as his not wanting to take a headlong plunge into the SW firestorm prior to Basic's release.

 

[Remathilis]

KK, thank ya.

That last part doesn't make much sense to me; if the mods affect the core system in ways that ripple back to character abilities; doesn't that by definition affect character abilities?

I think he means that a healing module will affect how healing works on a basic level (such as converting lethal damage to nonlethal or changing healing rates on wound vs. vitality) as opposed to changing individual abilities (if you are using the V/WP system, change second wind to this...). This means the system doesn't have to constantly be updated/clarified as new options (a new class with heal abilities, for example) come out later.

What this means is that changing the healing options doesn't turn second wind off per se (the slow heal doesn't replace the SW mechanic, but it changes what "heal 1d10+level hp" means). It will still be on the onus of the DM to rewrite/remove SW if it offends him so.

 

[gweinel]

As I understand it, the thing that will be moduled will be the resting/healing and not the second wind. So, in "old school resting" module might be no short rest or maybe the short rest might be once per day (short rest = long rest).

However, in that way the fighter is getting nerfed since as I remember the cleric or the wizard does not feature any short rest dependant abilities.

 

[Remathilis]

As I understand it, the thing that will be moduled will be the resting/healing and not the second wind. So, in "old school resting" module might be no short rest or maybe the short rest might be once per day (short rest = long rest).

However, in that way the fighter is getting nerfed since as I remember the cleric or the wizard does not feature any short rest dependent abilities.

Cleric: Channel Divinity

Wizard: Arcane Recovery

 

[gweinel]

Cleric: Channel Divinity

Wizard: Arcane Recovery

damn my goldfish memory

So, in a possible module in which short rest = long rest we come more closer to the 3rd e wizard with no arcane recovery and a bit nerfed cleric with only one turn undead / day but more versatile with more healing power.

 

[Remathilis]

damn my goldfish memory

So, in a possible module in which short rest = long rest we come more closer to the 3rd e wizard with no arcane recovery and a bit nerfed cleric with only one turn undead / day but more versatile with more healing power.

Granted, we've yet to see rogues our any PHB class, but with a slight tweak to turn undead, removing short rests and then lowering the heal rate (lvl per day?) Does seem like a good way to emulate old school play. 1d10+lvl per DAY ain't gonna break the bank, It's basically a free hd of hp at that point.