Should the Greatsword be d12?

Should the Greatsword be d12?

  • Yes

    Votes: 50 44.2%
  • No

    Votes: 63 55.8%

Mercutio01

First Post
I'd really like to see some detailed math for this, from people who know what they're doing (i.e. not me!)

I mean, for me, it's clearly a "dumb" situation where a dude with a bastard sword is better off than a 2H sword. It's Just Not Right, as they say.
Except that the bastard sword requires a feat. It's harder to wield properly, so that's why it's Superior Melee.

I thought the same thing initially - the the 2H sword is weak by comparison. And it is, until you take into account that you have to spend a feat to get it.

AND - that a two-handed weapon specialty fighter cannot benefit from the +1 bonus to attack with the bastard sword since it is a one-handed weapon. You get more damage (by +1) but you don't get the +1 to attack.

That is unless you use a shield and are one-handed weapon specialized, in which case you don't get the +1 damage until you drop your shield.

Really, the more I tried to pull this apart, the more I realized that it makes absolute mechanical sense as written.
 

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Except that the bastard sword requires a feat. It's harder to wield properly, so that's why it's Superior Melee.

I thought the same thing initially - the the 2H sword is weak by comparison. And it is, until you take into account that you have to spend a feat to get it.

AND - that a two-handed weapon specialty fighter cannot benefit from the +1 bonus to attack with the bastard sword since it is a one-handed weapon. You get more damage (by +1) but you don't get the +1 to attack.

That is unless you use a shield and are one-handed weapon specialized, in which case you don't get the +1 damage until you drop your shield.

Really, the more I tried to pull this apart, the more I realized that it makes absolute mechanical sense as written.

Let's be sensible and remember we aren't only talking about Fighters here, Mercutio. There are specific ways in which a 2h-sword is slightly better for a Fighter, as you outlined, but do any of them apply to any other classes? Or are they all, in fact, better off using a bastard sword than a 2h?

Also, as I don't have my books with me, am I correct in assuming that it costs the same amount of feats to buy proficiency in the Bastard Sword as it does for the 2H sword if you're a character not naturally granted either? Is there some restriction I've forgotten.

So the question, for me, still remains, as I'm concerned about more than just Fighters.

Another bookless idiot question - is there a heroic-tier Feat the 2h sword fighter could buy to make his 2h sword equal the bastard sword in damage? I mean, I can understand that a feat is probably worth 1 damage (or more), but I can't understand why a person using a bigger, meaner sword can't buy a feat to up his damage too.

Maybe that's all the house-ruling we need? Greatsword Master, req. 13 Str, 13 Dex, +1 damage (or +2?) with two-handed swords used two-handed. Maybe it needs to be specific to size M creatures or something, because I imagine the +2 damage feats for Dwarves and Eladrin are only balanced because they are size M.
 



Another bookless idiot question - is there a heroic-tier Feat the 2h sword fighter could buy to make his 2h sword equal the bastard sword in damage? I mean, I can understand that a feat is probably worth 1 damage (or more), but I can't understand why a person using a bigger, meaner sword can't buy a feat to up his damage too.

Same feat covers both swords. It's +1 to damage with heavy blades (increase to +2 at Paragon and +3 at Epic).

Now there is the matter of Power Attack... but that assumes you're willing to give up chance to-hit for increased damage... and that WILL do increased damage with a 2H weapon over a 1H.

I tend to agree that Greatsword is a really suboptimal choice unless you want to be a 2H weapon fighter, and I'm not 100% sure that's so great compared to a 1H fighter who can carry a shield and spend 1 feat to get Bastard Sword proficiency. It's basically a feat that says "add a +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex" (or a +2 with check penalties). Alternatively you could look at it vs using a Longsword and say the feat is +1 damage (average--and up to +2, for example, on crits) which isn't that exciting until you realize that it's untyped bonus damage and will stack with everything.

I just don't see any incentive to actually use a GS from a mechanical (as opposed to Roleplaying) reason.
 

Anthony Jackson

First Post
The problem is not with the greatsword; it's reasonably well balanced in comparison to other military two-handed weapons. The real problem is the bastard sword, because it's better than any other weapon by an unreasonable margin. Change the bastard sword from a 1d10 weapon to a 2d4 weapon and a lot of problems go away.
 

Cpt_Micha

First Post
Actually compared to the other two hander's it is still under gunned. :p

It's a seven on my weapons test the others are 8s or 9s
A d12 fixes it.
 


Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I think the greatsword got too much love in previous editions, and where it is placed now is just right.

Previously it was the obviously best choice in all circumstances for 2H weapons. Now there is a genuine choice, and I like it better like that.
 

Cpt_Micha

First Post
See I feel differently. It's not as good as the other great weapons. Even with a d12 the great axe is still better (but not by nearly as much)

They did a great job with all of the great weapons but the greatsword.
 

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