D&D 5E (2014) Should the Hexblade Patron be Banned?

[UngeheuerLich]

I'll just say that I never hear anyone reference 3.0. I hear AD&D, 2nd edition, 3.5, 4, and 5.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Is she hitting things with a weapon or blasting away with EB? What level?

Hitting with weapon, is now level 8.

 

[Ancalagon]

Hitting with weapon, is now level 8.

Shadow of Moil and armor of agathy could be a way to make her a lot less fragile...

... and then you are out of spell slots :/

 

[Flamestrike]

I don't care for them. It creates a single stat character who can do a lot of things. The goodies are so front-loaded it becomes an overly attractive dip. One level is all you need to solve the MADness of a Paladin or martial Bard.

This isnt 3E. A 1 level dip is significant in 5E and you feel the negative impacts of that dip quite often in actual play (unlike in 3E). Warlock doesnt stack with any other caster for spells per day, and if you're more melee orientated, it delays extra attack by an entire level.

I'd much rather be playing a Paladin 5, Bard 5 or Sorcerer 5 over a Hexblade 1/ Paladin 4 or a Hexblade 1/ Sorcerer 4 or Hexblade 1/ Bard 4 for example.

I've lost track of the amount of players that fell into the Sor-lock M/C trap, and spent the rest of the campaign looking over enviously at the single classed Wizard or Sorcerer getting access to the really good spells a level (or two) earlier (which is several sessions earlier in actual play).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This isnt 3E. A 1 level dip is significant in 5E and you feel the negative impacts of that dip quite often in actual play (unlike in 3E). Warlock doesnt stack with any other caster for spells per day, and if you're more melee orientated, it delays extra attack by an entire level.

I'd much rather be playing a Paladin 5, Bard 5 or Sorcerer 5 over a Hexblade 1/ Paladin 4 or a Hexblade 1/ Sorcerer 4 or Hexblade 1/ Bard 4 for example.

I've lost track of the amount of players that fell into the Sor-lock M/C trap, and spent the rest of the campaign looking over enviously at the single classed Wizard or Sorcerer getting access to the really good spells a level (or two) earlier (which is several sessions earlier in actual play).

Generally speaking, there are certain levels, where the single class character is ahead and level where the multiclass is ahead. Often powergamers fall into the "at level 10" I will be unbeatable and forget that they need to get there first.

I learned to have a plan for my characters but I decide from level to level what I do, depending on what happened in the adventure and what is needed at that point.

 

[Seramus]

I've lost track of the amount of players that fell into the Sor-lock M/C trap, and spent the rest of the campaign looking over enviously at the single classed Wizard or Sorcerer getting access to the really good spells a level (or two) earlier (which is several sessions earlier in actual play).

Yeah. Things are not nearly as bad as 3.5, but losing caster levels is a big deal. Sometimes the trade can be worth it, but it's a very painful choice to make.

 

[delph]

I was pushed into Hexblade 2/ Shadow Sorcerer 4 by my group - there wasn't any full caster, only one ranger. Then monk, fighter, blood hunter, rogue... And I was planning to go hexblade pact of blade melee but didnť know what others want to play... and now I'm PEW PEW EB blaster. Hex + Curse + AB + Eldritch spear + metamagic dominate battlefield. 1d10+1d6+7 with two beams do lot of damage. Quickened even more.
With darkness from sorcery points, I needn't devil sight, and I have elven accuracy too...
I'm not so spell fountain as wizard could be and our party need, but still better than pure hexblade. On Sunday I will continue with pew pew EB to one room where are lying two companions and another two run trough to next floor. And there are mechanical undead monsters never going out...

 

[Flamestrike]

Yeah. Things are not nearly as bad as 3.5, but losing caster levels is a big deal. Sometimes the trade can be worth it, but it's a very painful choice to make.

Its not just caster levels; it's also delaying extra attack by a whole level for martials.

 

[TwoSix]

Its not just caster levels; it's also delaying extra attack by a whole level for martials.

I don't disagree, but you can mitigate that somewhat for that level by taking BB or GFB.

Ultimately, I don't see a hexblade dip as being nearly good enough to justify banning it. It would be nice if it wasn't the most obvious warlock subclass for a dip, but that can be fixed by simply making some of the other subclasses better.

 

[Flamestrike]

I don't disagree, but you can mitigate that somewhat for that level by taking BB or GFB.

I've done just this but it still feels sucky.

One attack with GFB at 5th level, just isnt the same as swinging that greatsword twice. Moreso on a Paladin thanks to 2 smites being better than one.

Considering a Paladin can dump Dexterity and Intelligence (heavy armor), and still need Strength to wear that heavy armor, I dont see the MAD as being an issue for them to justify the dip. Ditto Bards, and ditto Sorcerers (each for different reasons).

Compare a Paladin (default array, +2 Charisma at 4th) Vuman at 5th level: Str 16, Dex 8, Con 14, Wis 12, Int 10, Cha 16.

If he's dumping Strength to instead focus on Charisma via a Hexblade dip, he's not using heavy armor (or likely even medium armor) due to encumbrance, meaning he needs a good Dex now. His AC is likely worse than that of the above single classed Paladin, he misses out on extra attack, and likely only has a hit bonus of +1 higher than the Strength based single class paladin to make up for it.

He has access to shield, a recharching 1st level slot for smites, and a better ranged attack with EB, but that's really more of a fallback option; his main schtick is getting in someone's face and smiting them dead, which the single classed Paladin simply just does a whole lot better.