Should there be a "Vile/Mature" line of products?

[rounser]

Bit of history - when the Book of Vile Darkness arrived I read it and said, "nice rules set, now where's the vileness?" Needless to say alot of people looked at me a bit crosseyed after that.

The thought crossed my mind, why so gung-ho about fluff in this type of product in particular, and not, say, Forgotten Realms?

I suspect that the answer is both:
a) Because "vile" fluff will sell, whereas most other fluff doesn't.
b) Because it's a WotC "first" for the game, rather than a retread of something TSR did, and therefore important for identity reasons.

 

[Kesh]

I think most of the confusion comes from the term 'vile content'. For most people, that brings an image of gory, sexual content. 'Mature' has other connotations.

I'd say Paizo is looking for mature content, rather than vile content, but the words are being used interchangably. And that's getting people riled.

 

[boschdevil]

Yet we have the upcoming Book of Exalted Deeds. But I don't see anyone saying "I won't buy a magazine with Exalted Material in it!" Both are in the Mature Product Line. Anyone focusing on "Vile" over "Mature" is painting this topic with a single theme, one that shows more of their own lacking of understanding concerning the product line and the proposed publishing label AV has put forth. Sorry to point this out, but it's hard to have a reasonable discussion about "mature content" when a small number of people are screaming "Vile! Vile! Vile!"

I guess it begs the question, "By Mature Content, are you still focusing on rules for rape, prostitution, drug usage, self-mutilation, and blood-letting?" If yes, then all Mature Content becomes is an politically correct term for Vile. If not, I stand corrected.

Also, I would say that if the Book of Exalted Deeds focuses on the rape, prostoitution, drug usage, and blood letting, then I would expect to have that material denoted as Vile as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if people do come forth to say that they won' t buy the magazine due to the Book of Exalted Deeds material content.

Also, noting by how some of the people have voted to the question, I wouldn't say that the people opposed to Vile material is such a small minority.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Originally posted by ValterraFromHome
A) Do you think there would be an audience?
B) Would you buy it?
C) If you supported such a line would you also evangelize it (let people know that it was out there and that it was cool)?
D) Would you defend it (there will be people who will proclaim the death of gaming if such a line were to come into existence)?
E) And finally, would you participate (post ideas, drawings, stories, etc. on a website, network with other players, help develop codes of conduct and ethics for play etc. )?

A) Yes
B) Probably, depending on its overall quality.
C) Yes, if it was well done and not just a marketing ploy for sales.
D) Yes, Absolutely
E) As much as I do now

F) Should it be in Dragon/Dungeon: Absolutely not. These magazines are for the entire D&D market including children.

 

[kenjib]

Yet we have the upcoming Book of Exalted Deeds. But I don't see anyone saying "I won't buy a magazine with Exalted Material in it!" Both are in the Mature Product Line. Anyone focusing on "Vile" over "Mature" is painting this topic with a single theme, one that shows more of their own lacking of understanding concerning the product line and the proposed publishing label AV has put forth. Sorry to point this out, but it's hard to have a reasonable discussion about "mature content" when a small number of people are screaming "Vile! Vile! Vile!"

I assume you've seen a playtest copy of the Book of Exalted Deeds and thus know why it has the mature label?

 

[Bendris Noulg]

I guess it begs the question, "By Mature Content, are you still focusing on rules for rape, prostitution, drug usage, self-mutilation, and blood-letting?" If yes, then all Mature Content becomes is an politically correct term for Vile. If not, I stand corrected.

Yes, that's what a book named "exalted" is about, all the same things that "vile" is about.

Really, if you're going to go through this entire conversation with a completely purile view on the topic, than what's the point of the conversation?

Also, noting by how some of the people have voted to the question, I wouldn't say that the people opposed to Vile material is such a small minority.

There is a poll that shows that mature content (particularly Vile content) gets a bit of support when one can pop in, click "Yes", and leave without having to defend themselves from folks that would try to label them as immature perverts with a thing for "boobies". And that poll says you're a minority; A loud one that continue to repeat the same close-minded views again and again.

 

[SemperJase]

Mr. Valtera

I am very interested in the business of RPG's.

A common concept of business is ROI (return on investment). Every business has to choose where it will invest its capital. In today's current environment, it seems that most businesses are spending less capital.

This is where WotC's choice becomes important. BoVD and like products inherently limit their market to adult audiences.

You are correct that a large part of WotC's customers are over 18 and some (even many) may want a "vile" content. That point still limits the number of potential customers for vile products. I don't know the specific numbers, but lets say that 75% of rpg players are over 18. Any product targeted at them specifically invites 25% of your total market not to buy that product. That does not include the portion of that 75% of your audience that does not want vile content.

Can WotC afford to market products that intentionally exclude a small (but still significant) percentage percentage of its customer base? Would a higher ROI be achieved marketing to a larger or smaller audience?

 

[Bendris Noulg]

I assume you've seen a playtest copy of the Book of Exalted Deeds and thus know why it has the mature label?

No, I haven't. Chances are you haven't. Thing is, while I and others are willing to wait and see what the possibilities are, many others here are willing to condemn the label "mature content" without any foreknowledge at all.

 

[Tiefling]

There is a poll that shows that mature content (particularly Vile content) gets a bit of support when one can pop in, click "Yes", and leave without having to defend themselves from folks that would try to label them as immature perverts with a thing for "boobies". And that poll says you're a minority; A loud one that continue to repeat the same close-minded views again and again.

Although ENWorld is up there among the least representative samples of the gaming community. Compound that with the fact that certain, non-random people will read a poll and certain, non-random people will proceed to vote on it and you have pretty useless data.

Not that I disagree with you.

 

[Hygric]

I'd say no, no need for a line of vile / mature products.

the BoVD is good stuff, a great resource indeed, but I don't feel the need for more of it. I would much rather wotc to focus upon stuff that might be of greater use for all the d20 community, rahter than one sub-set of it.

If there was going to be more vile stuff, I would like to see it under a different imprint than WOTC. ie a D20 publisher set up to handle vile / mature material.