Should There Be More Multiclassed Feats?

[Storyteller01]

I don't see a problem with multi-class feats. It might be a viable options for those who don't want to take a PrC, or for those who can't find a PrC to fit the character design.

 

[Thaniel]

I think it would be better if you make a list of the class abilities that such a feat (or set of feats) would allow to grow and make one feat for all of it. You take the feat, choose the two classes it works with, and blammo.

 

[Agent Oracle]

I think it would be better if you make a list of the class abilities that such a feat (or set of feats) would allow to grow and make one feat for all of it. You take the feat, choose the two classes it works with, and blammo.

maybe, but they you wind up with people making their characters into monk / bard / paladin / assasins justified through repeated takes of that feat.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree with all whole post, CRGreathouse.

As below, feats aren't the proper mechanic for the job. The idea behind multiclassing is that a character who wants to combine archetypes or class abilities simply takes different classes. If this isn't feasable, then the essential goal of multiclassing is lost. Attempts to 'patch' the system with feats is problematic, because:

• Not every combination will be addressed
• Only some of the archetypes within certain class combinations will be addressed
• Additional base (and even prestige classes) lead to a combinatorial explosion
• Requiring feat(s) for effective multiclassing limits certain archetypes which lack for feats

One more thing that bothers me is this general attitude of "fixing a problem" by using something in the rules which has nothing to do with the problem itself. To someone it may seem brilliant, but for my taste it sucks. It reminds me of those business accounting tricks, thanks to which a company can "dope" its balance and turn from negative to positive. But the trick doesn't solve the problem, it only creates the illusion of a solution (or worse, it could just delay & accrue the effects to next year's balance). And yet those who can make those tricks are praised as brilliant economists...

What does it mean in D&D terms? Almost everyone agrees that it is unfair that a certain class combo is forbidden, or that it stacks badly and results in a weak character. You "fix" that by spending feats... so you end up with a feat less, and again you're weaker. Maybe you add another benefit to the feat so that you're not weaker. Still you need to take that benefit even if you would rather have something else. It would be much much easier to just add a straight fix for a weak combo in the PHB or PHB2. No need to use a totally unrelated mechanic (feats). Fix the hole where the hole is. You want to be a Sorcerer/Monk? You can provide a variant rule in the PHB2 (variant only because it isn't in the PHB1) which says that when combining Sorcerer with another classes you get this and that, etc...

Don't get me wrong, I like the 3.x multiclassing over the 2E dual/multi rules. Even so, I admit that the system has problems, most famously multiclassing spellcasters. I think that changes need to be directed at the system itself. An example of such a change is UA's magic rating. I'm not saying this is the solution (even to just this part of the problem), just that it's addressing the issue at the heart and not the periphery.

Yes, this is the kind of solutions that I mean. They address the problem itself, not try a workaround. Think of having a problem in your house, like a window frame is broken: you go and fix that window, you don't tear down a piece of door or fireplace and borrow it to fix the window Otherwise, after doing that for a few problem your house looks like junk and you wish to build a new one from scratch (incidentally, this could be where these fixing attitude may lead D&D 3.x to ).

 

[Dog Moon]

Why is there the mentality that the multiclassing feats are attempting to fix something? Before reading this thread, I had never thought that, though maybe I have a slightly different view of multiclassing feats.

I do admit, however, that I dislike the idea of a feat attempting to fill in parts of both classes that are lacking when multiclassing [well, only a little, actually], but must all of the multiclassing feats do that? Take Bardic Singing and Smite Evil and combine them into an interesting sonic attack against Evil creatures. That could make an interesting feat.

Why must a Multiclass feat say that Bard and Paladin levels stack to determine number of daily uses of Singing and Smite Evil abilities, [which I guess would be your attempt at 'fixing' multiclassing between Paladin and Bard] or something to that effect?

If the Feats were aimed at combining two abilities, for example, and twisting them into something interesting instead of attempting to 'fix' the multiclassing situation, would that be preferable?

[Please ignore the specifics of combining Bard and Paladin; those were just the first two classes that popped into my head]

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If the Feats were aimed at combining two abilities, for example, and twisting them into something interesting instead of attempting to 'fix' the multiclassing situation, would that be preferable?

I think no one has a problem with that. The problem is definitely more related to the attempt on fixing issues with multiclassing, just as Li Shenron described it.

An interesting question is all of the "multi-class" feats are actually just fixes, or some genuinely grant an improvement compared to any other feat...

 

[Klaus]

The "fixes" feats are Knight Training and Monastic Training (from ECS), since all they do is remove the multiclass restriction between paladin or monk and *one* other class. As for the others, each add something beyond removing the restriction:

Ascetic Hunter: levels stack for unarmed damage. Half the favored enemy bonus adds to the save DC for a stun attempt vs. a favored enemy.

Ascetic Knight: levels stack for unarmed damage and smite evil damage.

Ascetic Mage: spend slot to gain +spell level to hit and damage for 1 round. If sorcerer/monk, levels stack for AC bonus, and add Cha instead of Wis to AC.

Ascetic Rogue: Stunning Fist + Sneak Attack adds +2 to the DC. Levels stack for unarmed damage.

Devoted Inquisitor: Sneak attack + Smite Evil = daze.

Devoted Performer: levels stack for smite evil damage and bardic music uses per day.

Devoted Tracker: levels stack for smite evil damage and wild empathy. May designate mount as an animal companion.