Should this be fixed

[Aberzanzorax]

I agree with Mort's assessment (though if this is a chaotic rogue worshiping a LN god and not fully understanding what that religion means...as could be the case with an ill-informed religious fanatic, then his actions make sense.)

I'd not expect anything from the DM. I'd expect the rogue, since he destroyed party treasure, to make up for it. That, or next time you find an item the rogue wants, break it in front of him "because it's evil". (EDIT: Breaking the item is a bit of a petty lesson, but what the rogue character did was going behind the backs of his friends...This is only something I'd do if your group's characters are being petty, of course, and the players are not.)



It bugs me when characters get away with doing crappy things to their party because the real life friends know it's "just roleplaying". The other characters, in many cases, if roleplayed as well would have negative reactions and consequences...people don't tend to hang out with others who consistently are a liability and treat them like crap. Friends will have a talk, work it out, stop hanging out together for a while, ask for monies to be repaid, as for apologies and promises of not doing it again, or more dysfunctionally will get revenge or act harshly.

Roleplay the consequences. That's my advice.

 

[steeldragons]

Another "kudos" to your DM's creativity. Sounds like a nice, non-standard way to give the PCs a nice payout.

I would also say that "handwaving that it didn't happen" is absolutely NOT the way to handle this...as utterly infuriating as it must be for the other players.

The dwarf gets some "props" for role-laying his character and sticking to his guns...but, actions have consequences.

In this case (don't even get me started with murdering the LG wizard), I think booting the PC (again, not the player) from the group is neither drastic nor unwarranted. This is twice his alleged "beliefs" have caused the party serious loss! "Thanks, but no thanks, buddy. We'll do fine on our own. Go sequester yourself in a St. Cuthbert seminary where you can't do us any more damage."

I know that she plans to make up for the loss in other ways by putting more treasure in later she just doesn't want to just hand wave away what happened. She is good at making sure we have what we need to succeed.

Again, good (and kind) DM. I hope you bring her gifts and refreshment on all high holidays.

As for the player he is not playing a cleric but a rogue who is dedicated to St Cuthbert. His back story is that he was captured by the drow skinned almost to death and rescued by a cleric of St Cuthbert who gave his life for him. He has dedicated his life to service to St Cuthbert since then. Which he views as stomping out evil.

That's nice he's keeping with his character/backstory...but if he's that..."fanatical", it seems he ought to be a looking to become a cleric...not that I think killing LG wizards is going to get him into Cuthbert's graces. But that's the PC's problem.

This is the second time his actions have gotten the party in big trouble.

-snip-

When the rogue saw he was a necromancer he went nuts and killed him before the rest of us got up the stairs, he was scouting ahead. The necromancer was a member of my guild a group of lawful good wizards. I was able to find the information we needed in the wizard's notes.

Yeah, I'm inclined to guess that finding it in his notes was your DM being kind again and thinking on her feet to get you the info you needed.

Again, this is...or may be "good" roleplaying...but it also seems to be the player is not paying attention to the world he is existing in. If it is known that necromancers are not necessarily evil, then he has no leg to stand on...IF St. Cuthbert's church says "death to all necromancers" in their dogma, then...yeah, it's justified. But you haven't made it sound like this is the case.

We ended up arrested for murder and and the party had to cough up the gold to get the wizard raised. The dwarf spent sometime in jail. We still work with the necromancer from time to time and I thought the dwarf was over his all necromancy is evil stand.

If you want to take a less stringent stand than "pay up what you lost us or we're booting your PC from the party"...I'd say a "3 strikes and you're out...you have 2....2 reeeeally realllly big ones. Tread carefully."

Out of game the DM has talked to the player and asked why, and he says he is playing the dwarf in a black and white way with no shades of gray. He knows the world we are playing in is not black and white and he is fine with that. He says he is having fun playing a fanatic to the cause of stomping out all evil.

And that's great that that's the PC he wants...and that PC must exist in a NON-black and white world...with other NON-black and white PCs. His actions have consequences...like booting him from the party...or hiring a different rogue and keeping him back at camp to guard the horses or something...not letting him anywhere near anything that MIGHT be considered "treasure"...and obviously, paying back the party members for all of the treasure he looses them.

How does he respond to "the wizard you murdered wasn't evil? Those jars of copious wealth you destroyed were not evil"?...So in what way are you black-n-whitely "stomping out evil?"

Most of the time it is not an issue and we are real life friends and this issue does not carry out of the game most of the time.

MOST of the time I'm not watching 30,000gp getting smashed down the drain...Real life friends has nothing to do with it...this is PC actions...have and deserve PC ramifications. If the character doesn't want everyone in the party mad at him, then he will need to curb his behavior in such a way as to not make them mad. From what you've told of the PC's attitude and background, I am inclined to believe the PC does not care if anyone is mad at him and exists in a self-created moral justification...hence, he is really not of use to the "good of the party."

Just my few coppers on the sitch.
--Steel Dragons

 

[Aberzanzorax]

After some more thought, if I were playing a character who had any ranks in knowledge religion, I'd realize that St. Cuthbert doesn't approve.

So (if I was this sort/feeling charitable) I'd sit down with this guy and tell him, nicely "I know you're very devoted to the church...but you're not well informed on their teachings. If you want to devote your life to their glory, you need to learn what to do and not do."

I'd then encourage him to go and study with the chuch until they felt he had a solid grasp on their teachings, so he could better devote himself to their service. In game terms, I'd require some roleplaying in this regard as well as him taking some ranks in knowledge religion (or halve the cost if it were only "knowledge, St. Cuthbert").

 

[billd91]

If I were the DM, I would not be making up for the 30,000 gp the dwarf destroyed. As DM, I set up the treasure, but it's up to the PCs what they do with it whether use it wisely or piss it away.

And if I were a player in that campaign, I'd try to get the rest of the players to agree to cut the dwarf out of shares until restitution on that 30,000 he destroyed was paid.

 

[Oryan77]

As a player, I wouldn't worry too much about what the DM does or does not do. I'd just stay in character and react the way I think the PC should react. If the money is important to your PC, then make the dwarf "pay" for his actions in some way. If the money isn't important, then let it slide and forget about it.

As a DM, I definitely would not do anything to blatantly make up for the dwarf's actions. I would just move on with the game. There are plenty of opportunities to make up for the lost treasure down the road. If anything, I would see the dwarf's actions as a good thing. He's spicing things up for the game. Giving you guys your rewards is the easy part of D&D even if it means that you don't realize that the next bits of loot you find are payment for what you missed out on in the past.

 

[steeldragons]

Having dwelt upon this scenario for a bit...and thinking of how I would think/act as a player and a DM...another couple of thoughts...

Specifically, are there other "Lawful Good" PCs? How did they react to his actions? How did they react to the slaying of a LG NPC? I think everyone in the party needs to take a hard lok at how their characters react, regardless of how they feel as players (I, personally as a player, would be ripshit!)

As a DM...and this totally goes to how your DM treats/how closely she charts Alignment in her campaign...but for me, I would say, murdering a LG NPC is a Chaotic Evil act...this does not go towards any personal belief or justification the dwarf character believes...it is how alignment is treated in the game. If everyone of any alignment is allowed to simply create their own definition and act [what they feel is] accordingly, then alignment, obviously doesn't matter.

But, specifically for matters of religious belief, alignment (IMHO) MUST matter and, thus, actions be answered for.

As a DM, I would give the dwarf a single 1 more opportunity to act in such a manner...and then, he (or perhaps paladinic N/PCs will notice HE detects as "evil." Maybe the next time someone casts a "protection from evil", he feels some weakness...next time some casts "Detect Evil"...he shows up like a beacon...

In short, his actions are his actions...and they have caused an Alignment change...again, this is not what the character BELIEVES himself to be...but in the cosmic scales...it is what he has shone himself to be...

Some form of atonement or "penance" might be an interesting side-quest/plot. I also, heartily agree with Aborzanzorax's reccomendation that some "Knowledge" skills towards his religion be made mandatory by the party/church. Perhaps encounter an NPC cleric of St. Cuthbert to chastise him roundly about the ears...or beard...as the case may be.

Have fun and good luck.
--Steel Dragons

 

[ExploderWizard]

At best the dwarf should be excluded from future treasure shares until the value of what he destroyed is paid off. At worst he should be beaten with rattan canes and booted from the group.

Your DM sounds cool and should not have to replace treasure that was willfully destroyed by PC stupidity.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Count me in as another giving Kudos to your DM.

I would not make up the lost treasure (although the PCs are always free to hunt down more). I would consider how the dwarf's actions relate to his religion; if he tithes, someone from the upper hierarchy of the church might well admonish him for destroying "their" part of the take, and set him some "minor" task in restitution.

In a way, kudos for the player thinking more about what his character would do in-game than what is the wisest metagame move. I would, however, agree with those who council for more discussion as to what the in-game milieu norms are. It seems like this player strongly dislikes the idea of non-evil necromancy.

All in all, it sounds like a game I would have fun in.

But then, I think WbL guidelines have become a pulsating boil on the backside of the game, and don't care if they are followed or not, in either direction! To the degree that you disagree with that assessment, YMMV and very likely will!

 

[Ed_Laprade]

My first thought is that the PC (not player) should be booted from the party. Literally. However, after reading SteelDragon's second post I agree that if Alignment means anything in the game world his suggestions should be adopted. And kudos to your GM, she's doing a bang-up job as far as I can tell. Good gaming!

 

[baradtgnome]

The DM put the treasure in the game and the players flushed it out. I recommend you let it stand, and the DM should NOT replace the treasure.

Its fine for the Dwarf character's player to role play situations, but should expect the other party members to role play back. The other characters (not the players) should have been outraged! Think of what could have been done with that treasure value. Whether you are selfish neutral and spent it all on yourself, or some good alignment and put it to use in making life better for others, that was a tremendous resource to lose. The group should not be looking to the DM to 'fix' this - the characters should fix it.

If there is no repercussions to outrageous behavior - you'll get more of it. Possibly up to the point where the players (rather than the characters) get outraged.