Shouldn't we wait until passing judgement?

[Retreater]

I don't think I'm being too hasty. I'm not getting it. I don't give a good darn if WotC is going to package in sensual foot massages with every PHB purchase. I'm not buying it. I'm not saying that it may not have improvements over 3.5. But I'm still not buying it.

Reasons why I won't purchase 4.0, based on what I know now.

1. I've spent too much money on 3.5. I still have plenty of material to use. So unless WotC makes it 100% compatible with the previous edition (which will be impossible), they lose on this point.

2. I won't support the DI. Really, it's too much to spend every month for what we used to get for free. But then I'd hate to be considered "not a real D&D player." So unless WotC decides to allow free downloads of the important stuff to those who spend their money to purchase their books, they lose on this point.

3. They cancelled Dragon and Dungeon, and for that, the wound is still fresh. (How soon the ENWorlders forget! I, for one, won't let Paizo's death be in vain!)

4. For all the small guys, Necromancer, Goodman, and the other 3rd party publishers and the freelance authors who are getting jerked around by this scheme, just like they were with the release of 3.0, I won't support 4.0. (And guess what, I'm one of those freelance authors.)

5. Also, I've been unhappy with WotC's content as of late and the direction they've been taking. The Mike Mearls monster previews border on sacrilege in my mind. Seeing this as a preview window into the design philosophy of 4.0, I can see it's one I don't share.

These I think are all good reasons to refuse to spend the $240 that will be required to start up a D&D 4.0 campaign ($40 per rulebook, and $120 per annum subscription to play).

So, no thank you, WotC. If enough of our fellow enthusiasts would stand up against this scheme, we wouldn't keep getting jerked around by frequent rules changes, poor quality editing in books, etc. Vote with your wallets, ladies and gentlemen.

And no, I don't hate D&D.

Retreater

 

[Mouseferatu]

2. I won't support the DI. Really, it's too much to spend every month for what we used to get for free.

Wow. You got Dragon articles, Dungeon articles, a character creator, electronic copies of the books you purchased, and an online tabletop for gaming long-distance for free? Where can you hook me up?

I, for one, won't let Paizo's death be in vain!

Paizo's dead? You might want to let Erik, Jason, and James know about that. Last I heard, they've got multiple new lines of product coming out.

Really, you don't want to switch to 4E, fine. There are plenty of solid reasons; you even named a few. But let's cut the hyperbolic ranting, shall we?

 

[Imaro]

I think there's far too much negativity on this board. Just as ENWorld is a place for people who like D&D and d20, surely this sub-forum is for people who like 4E.

I'm confused, how can you like something that doesn't exsist yet? I thought this forum was for the discussion of WotC's impending release of 4e.

 

[Prophet2b]

There are many dramatic and fundamental changes to the game already announced, and there are "logical" conclusions that can be drawn as to future changes from what's been already released. By "logical" I don't mean 100% accurate, simply that certain changes will potentially lead to others.

This is actually bothering me. I don't comment often, but I do come here for good thoughts and information. However, regarding 4e, I've found little of either. Instead, it's become a whole mess of people squashing what very, very little we know with 3.5 and saying, "It won't work!" (I know - there are plenty not doing that. But enough are that it's getting kind of annoying.) Of course it wouldn't work in 3.5 - that's why there's going to be a 4th edition!

So, "logically" we can draw next to no conclusions right now. We don't know enough. Only Wizards knows enough to talk about it intelligently right now. There is nothing logical about these forums at the moment... :\

As a philosophy student (who's had a logic class), it's become rather... er... painful to read.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm confused, how can you like something that doesn't exsist yet?

Have you ever looked forward to something? Christmas? The next episode of a TV show? The next book in a series?

I believe there's even a word for "liking something that doesn't exist yet". Anticipation.

 

[Tharkun]

We should begin passing judgement on 5e before it is too late for that as well.

OK, 5E is going to suck!

 

[Retreater]

Wow. You got Dragon articles, Dungeon articles, a character creator, electronic copies of the books you purchased, and an online tabletop for gaming long-distance for free? Where can you hook me up?

Yeah, pretty nice, huh? PC Gen. Mapping software. The free articles on wizards.com (with downloadable adventures). Yeah, that stuff was free. Not all necessarily provided by WotC, but free nonetheless.

Paizo's dead? You might want to let Erik, Jason, and James know about that. Last I heard, they've got multiple new lines of product coming out.

We'll just see how long it all lasts without Dungeon and Dragon magazines and if they can keep the quality up. Certainly no one will be purchasing Gamemastery modules as the May 08 deadline comes closer. Maybe I should have instead said "fatally wounding Paizo, which is limping along to its death."

Mouseferatu, I know it's your job to support WotC's party line, but my opinion is my own.

Is it hyperbolic to be fed up with having to purchase and learn 3 new sets of rules in 8 years? In my opinion, it's unheard of in any industry. I'm not even sure if Microsoft is as nasty to their customers. In a niche industry such as the table top role playing market, customers have real power, and by the gods, I think it's time we use it!

Retreater

 

[Prophet2b]

In a niche industry such as the table top role playing market, customers have real power, and by the gods, I think it's time we use it!

I agree. Right now, I plan on buying 4e...

 

[Retreater]

I agree. Right now, I plan on buying 4e...

Good for you. Let me know if you enjoy it. I hope you do.

Retreater

 

[Mouseferatu]

Yeah, pretty nice, huh? PC Gen. Mapping software. The free articles on wizards.com (with downloadable adventures). Yeah, that stuff was free. Not all necessarily provided by WotC, but free nonetheless.

And do you have any knowledge that such things won't still be available for free from other companies? WotC's offering a service they didn't offer, that's all. Mapping software and independent character creators are almost certainly not going anywhere.

And BTW, WotC has said--over and over again, on multiple sites--that the web site will still contain some free materials. There will still be free articles, and I believe even some free adventures, completely separate from the subscription-portion of the DI.

We'll just see how long it all lasts without Dungeon and Dragon magazines and if they can keep the quality up. Certainly no one will be purchasing Gamemastery modules as the May 08 deadline comes closer. Maybe I should have instead said "fatally wounding Paizo, which is limping along to its death."

That's your take. Paizo claims to be, and seems to be, doing just fine. And if/when 3E proves unsupportable, there's nothing stopping them from switching over to 4E.

Mouseferatu, I know it's your job to support WotC's party line, but my opinion is my own.

Uh, no. My job has nothing to do with supporting any "party line." I'm a freelancer, not an employee. So long as I don't violate my NDA or start spreading lies about them, they could care less what I say on a messageboard. My opinions, too, are my own. And my opinion is that some of what you're espousing is unreasonable or downright factually incorrect.

Is it hyperbolic to be fed up with having to purchase and learn 3 new sets of rules in 8 years? In my opinion, it's unheard of in any industry.

Really? Most mainstream RPGs go through editions faster than D&D does. Vampire: The Masquerade had three editions before Vampire: The Requiem came out. Call of Cthulhu is on edition six or seven. And so on.

And incidentally, since you chose to bring up Microsoft, may I ask how many editions of Windows have been put out so far?

Again, you don't want to switch, that's fine. As I said, I understand why some people won't want to. But you can make your case based on opinion and fact, not on false analogies and exaggeration.