D&D 3E/3.5 Shuriken have changed in 3.5E
- Thread starter krazykid
- Start date
There are a lot of things you can do by the rules, and a lot of things that you probably can do by the rules, and a lot of things that the rules don't necessarily explain to everyone's satisfaction.
Rather than call me hard-headed (which I can freely admit btw), try to keep in mind that two people can read the exact same rules and see two different results.
Where I'm coming from on this one is that in 3.0 it did specifically preclude Rapid + TWF, and in 3.5 I think that the only reason the wording changed under the crossbow was due to the removal of ambidexterity. I think the designer's intent is still not to have Rapid + TWF stack for ranged combat. I think the "standard" 3e rule of same bonuses in fact does apply, as it applies to everything else.
I understand fully that Hyper, you can interpret the extra attacks as an unnamed bonus thus allowing them to stack. I simply don't share that point of view. We didn't make a house ruling "changing" the rules as written, we came to a consensus on the nature of the two feats in question and how they are supposed to work.
If you disagree, fine. Does it really matter if we see things differently? I find it perfectly valid to perceive two feats both granting extra attacks by different mechanics as being mutually exclusive. The rules never come out and say that they don't stack, and they never come out and say that they do.
According to you, they do. According to me, they don't. Which campaign do you play in? Nuff said.
Now we can either agree to disagree, or keep making pointless snyde remarks about my character and ability to perceive reality. Either way I assure you my mind won't change, so may we move on?
Rather than call me hard-headed (which I can freely admit btw), try to keep in mind that two people can read the exact same rules and see two different results.
Where I'm coming from on this one is that in 3.0 it did specifically preclude Rapid + TWF, and in 3.5 I think that the only reason the wording changed under the crossbow was due to the removal of ambidexterity. I think the designer's intent is still not to have Rapid + TWF stack for ranged combat. I think the "standard" 3e rule of same bonuses in fact does apply, as it applies to everything else.
I understand fully that Hyper, you can interpret the extra attacks as an unnamed bonus thus allowing them to stack. I simply don't share that point of view. We didn't make a house ruling "changing" the rules as written, we came to a consensus on the nature of the two feats in question and how they are supposed to work.
If you disagree, fine. Does it really matter if we see things differently? I find it perfectly valid to perceive two feats both granting extra attacks by different mechanics as being mutually exclusive. The rules never come out and say that they don't stack, and they never come out and say that they do.
According to you, they do. According to me, they don't. Which campaign do you play in? Nuff said.
Now we can either agree to disagree, or keep making pointless snyde remarks about my character and ability to perceive reality. Either way I assure you my mind won't change, so may we move on?
krazykid
First Post
Rules Citation
Thanks for the input guys - Hypersmurf (or others) where does it say Drawing a shuriken is a free action? Can some-one point me in the right direction so I can cite in as needed.
I am personally not so worried about being an expert shuriken thrower as I have a Katana
- They are just more in character than a dagger as a missle weapon. Intially I was planning on making them returning shuriken - however since the are ammo this may not be possible 
I have a mental image of a back-hand flick of the wrist, a shuriken flying slicing a neck artery and returning be deftly caught by the thrower.
We will see what deal I can strike with my DM.
Thanks for the input guys - Hypersmurf (or others) where does it say Drawing a shuriken is a free action? Can some-one point me in the right direction so I can cite in as needed.
I am personally not so worried about being an expert shuriken thrower as I have a Katana
- They are just more in character than a dagger as a missle weapon. Intially I was planning on making them returning shuriken - however since the are ammo this may not be possible I have a mental image of a back-hand flick of the wrist, a shuriken flying slicing a neck artery and returning be deftly caught by the thrower.
We will see what deal I can strike with my DM.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
krazykid said:
3.5 PHB, Equipment Chapter: Weapons: Weapon Categories: Melee and Ranged Weapons: Ammunition:
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons), and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Intially I was planning on making them returning shuriken - however since the are ammo this may not be possible
Right.
... and what happens to them after they are thrown.
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Caliban said:Hmm... Does this mean that since they are treated as ammunition when thrown, if the monk has Greater magic weapon casts on his fists, the shuriken would get the enhancement bonus?
The shuriken are treated as ammunition, but the fists aren't treated as a projectile weapon
Ottergame said:
True.
-Hyp.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
Thrown GMW shuriken ?
Perhaps 'Gloves of Projectile Throwing', a new magic item that can be enhanced to grant abilities to ammunition thrown ?
As an aside, I think the TWF-Flurry-Rapid Shot is a valid concept, and as noted it is suboptimal due to the -6 on all attacks. You have to burn 3 feats as a monk in order to do this, so why not?
JMHO
Perhaps 'Gloves of Projectile Throwing', a new magic item that can be enhanced to grant abilities to ammunition thrown ?
As an aside, I think the TWF-Flurry-Rapid Shot is a valid concept, and as noted it is suboptimal due to the -6 on all attacks. You have to burn 3 feats as a monk in order to do this, so why not?
JMHO
An alternative point of view
This is just my opinion, although it is backed by the SRD and neatly solves the feat stacking problem and the possibility of getting a million attacks at third level ;-).
Flurry of blows - As a FULL ROUND ACTION (rule), a monk can unleash a flurry of blows/shuriken
TWF/ITWF/etc - As a FULL ROUND ACTION (not specified), a character can make one or more extra attacks with an off-hand weapon.
Rapid shot - As a FULL ROUND ACTION (rule), a character can make an additional ranged attack.
Take your pick, but they don't stack!
Bigwilly
Edited for spelling!
This is just my opinion, although it is backed by the SRD and neatly solves the feat stacking problem and the possibility of getting a million attacks at third level ;-).
Flurry of blows - As a FULL ROUND ACTION (rule), a monk can unleash a flurry of blows/shuriken
TWF/ITWF/etc - As a FULL ROUND ACTION (not specified), a character can make one or more extra attacks with an off-hand weapon.
Rapid shot - As a FULL ROUND ACTION (rule), a character can make an additional ranged attack.
Take your pick, but they don't stack!
Bigwilly
Edited for spelling!
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