Shuriken question(s)

[Eric Finley]

Thanks to those who corrected me on the thing about more weapons than hands. You're absolutely correct and I even know that - I just did a brain fade when answering that bit.

If and when it gets back to my turn to DM, if I opt to give out magical thrown weapons to the party, they'll include my preferred restrictions. Blinding Barrage is still very good... and at high levels maybe you'll have one Shuriken +5, a couple old +4s kicking around, and as many +3s as you pragmatically want (for use strictly with multitarget thrown weapon attacks like these). This isn't nearly as bad as needing both weapon and implement at your highest bonus, anyway.

Having a dagger +2 with "returns instantly to your hand, even in the middle of a power with multiple targets" as a property would then be equivalent to (and slightly better than, due to freeing up the arms slot) the Bracers of Infinite Blades. And thus I'd make it have a comparable cost as those. The player who wants to be able to Blinding Barrage with a dagger? He can put that on his wish-list. Nobody else is particularly going to care.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It's officially in the FAQ, folks.

14. I am using a magical thrown weapon as part of an area of effect power. If I am attacking multiple enemies within that area, do I need multiple weapons, or will one suffice?

One is enough in this case. Magical thrown weapons return to you after each attack, so you’ll be able to use it against each enemy as part of using your power.

So no, you don't need multiple magic shurikens or daggers for things like blinding barrage. The single magic weapon is sufficient.

 

[boar]

Everyone here is assuming that shurikens can be wielded in the off-hand, but they don't have the off-hand property, there's nothing about shurikens in the errata, and the latest version of the character builder doesn't let you wield them in the off-hand. So if you want to wield a shuriken, it has to be in the main hand.

Not sure where everyone got the idea that shurikens could be wielded in the off-hand, but apparently all of you are wrong

As to whether magical shurikens will return to your hand after a throw, the PHB is clear as daybreak:

"Any magic light thrown or heavy thrown weapon, from the lowly +1 shuriken to a +6 perfect hunter’s spear, automatically returns to its wielder’s hand after a ranged attack with the weapon is resolved." (PHB 232)

I mean, I'm not sure what there is to argue here. The FAQ takes care of Blinding Barrage etc.

 

[Ryujin]

Everyone here is assuming that shurikens can be wielded in the off-hand, but they don't have the off-hand property, there's nothing about shurikens in the errata, and the latest version of the character builder doesn't let you wield them in the off-hand. So if you want to wield a shuriken, it has to be in the main hand.

Not sure where everyone got the idea that shurikens could be wielded in the off-hand, but apparently all of you are wrong

Somewhere i recall reading that it doesn't matter which hand you're wielding a weapon in, as long as you're only attacking with one. The off-hand property implies certain additional benefits that are immaterial, if you are not gaining those benefits.

Hopefully someone will remember where the comment about having a weapon in each hand is. I think it was in PHB1.

 

[James McMurray]

Our group plays it that magical thrown weapons return "instantly" unless you want to look cool (with boomerang returns). So a blast would just be a series of really quick toss and return motions.

It works for us, your group's mileage may vary.

Admittedly, this is a bit of a houserule patch

It's not a house rule. It's in the FAQ or errata, can't remember which..

 

[Regicide]

It's officially in the FAQ, folks.

So no, you don't need multiple magic shurikens or daggers for things like blinding barrage. The single magic weapon is sufficient.

Xena was right. Xena is always right. ALWAYS.

 

[Grabuto138]

Everyone here is assuming that shurikens can be wielded in the off-hand, but they don't have the off-hand property, there's nothing about shurikens in the errata, and the latest version of the character builder doesn't let you wield them in the off-hand. So if you want to wield a shuriken, it has to be in the main hand.

Not sure where everyone got the idea that shurikens could be wielded in the off-hand, but apparently all of you are wrong

Youa are right. But a dagger does have the off hand property. You hold the shuriken in your main hand and the dagger in your off hand. As far as I know (PHB 215) there is no penalty for using the off-hand dagger whenever you want to for a power.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Having a dagger +2 with "returns instantly to your hand, even in the middle of a power with multiple targets" as a property would then be equivalent to (and slightly better than, due to freeing up the arms slot) the Bracers of Infinite Blades. And thus I'd make it have a comparable cost as those. The player who wants to be able to Blinding Barrage with a dagger? He can put that on his wish-list. Nobody else is particularly going to care.

The problem is that the bracers of infinite blades were written by an idiot who had no idea how the rules worked, nor what balance meant.

Simply put, requiring a thrown-weapon rogue to pay extra cash to use his burst powers isn't balanced. Doubly so when his buddy the crossbow rogue is making the same attacks with a much more potent weapon, and NOT paying the extra price. Making an attack where some of the attack rolls are at -1 is a pretty hefty penalty, as is having to buy 3 or more high level magic weapons.

And it doesn't HAVE to be fast throw/return: one could easily flavour it as the rebounding shuriken of death, a dagger that splits into handfuls etc.

 

[boar]

Somewhere i recall reading that it doesn't matter which hand you're wielding a weapon in, as long as you're only attacking with one.

You are partially right. Indeed it does not matter which hand (right or left) is your main hand. But once you've designated one hand as the main and the other as the off, you CANNOT wield a weapon in the off-hand unless it has the off-hand property. For proof, check out the character builder, the two-weapon fighting class feature for rangers, and the off-hand property description.

Youa are right. But a dagger does have the off hand property. You hold the shuriken in your main hand and the dagger in your off hand. As far as I know (PHB 215) there is no penalty for using the off-hand dagger whenever you want to for a power.

That is correct. However, many people fail to realize that when a rogue dual-wields a dagger and a shuriken, it is a property of the dagger that lets him do this, not the shuriken. Take a look at the first reply to this thread:

"There's no off-hand penalty in this edition, so you can have a sword in your main hand and a shuriken in your left."

That is just plain false. You CANNOT have a shuriken in one hand and a "sword" (such as a short sword or rapier) in the other.

 

[Majushi]

"There's no off-hand penalty in this edition, so you can have a sword in your main hand and a shuriken in your left."

That is just plain false. You CANNOT have a shuriken in one hand and a "sword" (such as a short sword or rapier) in the other.

Well, yeah. That sentence has two things wrong with it;

1) it specifies that the sword is in the main hand.
2) it doesn't mention the offhand property.

That aside.

Your statement is also false (in part).

The character in question could wield a shuriken and a short sword, as the short sword also has the offhand property...