sight vs. blindsight

[Flipguarder]

Kind of an interesting question. Given all scenarios and situations, what level (range) of blindsight would be equal to regular vision.

Seems to me that blindsight 5 would be much weaker than regular sight.
Obviously blindsight 100 would be much more powerful than regular sight.

I would like to hear opinions on what the balancing point is. I want to build a eyeless playable race.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't think there is a point where it is precisely balanced. A sunrod has a radius of 20 squares. Presumably if anyone and his mother has those, then blindsight below 20 is going to be somewhat of a deficit. Even 20 will limit you with certain types of attacks.

The thing is, the vision rules break down at a certain point anyway. Suppose you had blindsight 10 and you're outdoors or in a large space. You can still know exactly where the enemy is at some arbitrary range from you, you just have -5 to hit them. It isn't even defined what that range is.

More than that, it really isn't defined what blindsight IS. Can you see someone in total concealment? How does it work? Can you read? Recognize people? Etc. For the sorts of beastial monsters that generally have ONLY blindsight these questions are fairly academic. For a PC you'll basically have to write better rules for blindsight before you can decide how good it is and how far you should be able to "see".

 

[Mentat55]

A couple things to think about:
1. You are blind with respect to creatures outside of your blindsight range (grant combat advantage to them, you suffer total concealment penalties)
2. Inside your blindsight range, you negate concealment/total concealment/invisibility.

So I guess the question becomes: at what range does the penalty of (1) approximately match the benefit of (2)?

If I had to guess, I'd say around 10 squares. Creatures with long-ranged attacks (javelins, projectile weapons, longer range spells, etc.) have a big advantage against you -- but this is basically archers, and the less frequent ranged 20 attacks (like magic missiles, fireballs, etc). However, creatures that have short range or melee attacks are somewhat disadvantaged, but only if they rely on invisibility or concealment. Sneaking up on a creature is still possible, but becomes much harder because concealment does nothing for you -- cover helps, and moving silently against a blind creature with blindsight still has benefits.

I think the most challenging aspect (from a DM perspective) would be trying to sneak up on a creature with blindsight. But from its description in the Compendium -- "A creature that has blindsight can clearly see creatures or objects within a specified range and within line of effect, even if they are invisible or obscured. The creature otherwise relies on its normal vision" -- this seems much more possible than, say, a 3.5e creature with blindsight.