Project Sigil Sigil, WotC 3D vtt game automation no more?

[SteveC]

It's alpha. What are you expecting?

And DND isn't close to automated in foundry without lots of modules you need to configure

Well, I guess I'm expecting them to be past Alpha stage at this point. I mean, the 50th anniversary was last year. There will most likely never be more interest in 5.5E than back then, so not having the product they are basing the entire edition on until late 2025 or 2026 is ... well, I guess that's a strategy.

And you're right, to get that automation in Foundry you need to add modules. Modules which there are many, many videos on YouTube about installing and using. And even with the base module, Foundry has loads of options we haven't, and it sounds like won't, see in Sigil.

I suppose I shouldn't expect much, given WotC's history with these types of apps, but I guess I'm expecting the largest gaming company, who purchased other companies to help with online play to have a product in place to play the game. Especially since that's how they're telling us they expect everyone to play it.

I absolutely am not opposed to using this product if it comes out and is decent, but I'm not seeing stuff that is encouraging me. Who knows, maybe things will change as it develops, and I'll be happy to be wrong if it's a great product.

 

[AlViking]

It sounds like they are having problems with the automation, which isn't surprising. If the goal of this project is to make this the default style of play for the game, you're going to need them.

If you compare this to Foundry, which has very strong automation in D&D (and near 100% automation in PF2) there really is no comparison. I get how a lot of experienced players and DMs are interested in a very bare-bones VTT but for new people? Help them play the game and automate things.

I obviously have no idea what the final product is going to look like but this isn't a good look (in my opinion) for the flagship product of this edition.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that creating a VTT after a decade and revision that VTT is supposed to be the driving force behind design. That may have been their focus for 4e before the VTT imploded but it seems like you want to put the cart a decade or so before the horse if I understand what you're saying.

 

[SteveC]

Not sure where you're getting the idea that creating a VTT after a decade and revision that VTT is supposed to be the driving force behind design. That may have been their focus for 4e before the VTT imploded but it seems like you want to put the cart a decade or so before the horse if I understand what you're saying.

That's been the message for pretty much the entire cycle of product development for this edition. Books and physical products aren't going to move D&D into that billion dollar a year business that WotC wants it to be: it will be online sales and transactions that could do it. The move to online books and D&D Beyond is impossible to miss. I guess I'd say as someone who's been following the development of the new Editon pretty closely, I can't imagine how anyone would think that the D&D brand will expand to that billion-dollar level with simply a physical edition of the core three books.

Maybe it will, but the metrics we've seen from WotC have included online sales, and what we've been able to see of numbers of book sales has been about what you'd expect for a new edition with this player base, subject to the pricing of the new physical books.

 

[Clint_L]

I wonder if it makes more sense to abandon Project Sigil and just keep adding more functionality and cosmetic options to Maps. For example, replacing the tokens with little miniatures.

 

[AlViking]

That's been the message for pretty much the entire cycle of product development for this edition. Books and physical products aren't going to move D&D into that billion dollar a year business that WotC wants it to be: it will be online sales and transactions that could do it. The move to online books and D&D Beyond is impossible to miss. I guess I'd say as someone who's been following the development of the new Editon pretty closely, I can't imagine how anyone would think that the D&D brand will expand to that billion-dollar level with simply a physical edition of the core three books.

Maybe it will, but the metrics we've seen from WotC have included online sales, and what we've been able to see of numbers of book sales has been about what you'd expect for a new edition with this player base, subject to the pricing of the new physical books.

We've been listening to a different message then. I don't blame them for wanting a piece of the VTT pie and having real 3D and some of the features Sigil is implementing could make it stand out from the crowd if they can get it to work. As far as the billion dollar bit, that's market-speak which doesn't mean much but is more focused on video games, movies and streaming because that's where the real money is. Video games are a big gamble but if successful are far, far more lucrative than DnD game will ever be whether played at a tabletop or online.

 

[AlViking]

I wonder if it makes more sense to abandon Project Sigil and just keep adding more functionality and cosmetic options to Maps. For example, replacing the tokens with little miniatures.

I would assume it's fundamentally different architecture. Doesn't seem like 3D tokens would be impossible but all the rest is a whole different ball of wax. For what it's worth if I had to play online again I'd be using maps, it works well enough for what I want especially with the new integration of the encounter builder.

 

[Yaarel]

What exactly do people mean by "automation"?

Is this textual stuff of keep track of the character sheet stats?

Or is it visual animation graphics?


The character sheet stuff is nice. Otherwise, all I need is a tool to create visually appealing maps easily and on the fly.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

What exactly do people mean by "automation"?

Is this textual stuff of keep track of the character sheet stats?

Or is it visual animation graphics?


The character sheet stuff is nice. Otherwise, all I need is a tool to create visually appealing maps easily and on the fly.

Automation, in this context, generally refers to the VTT doing stuff like the math, taking into account save and so forth,
For instance the wizard cast fireball, They select the creatures affected and activate the effect. The table rolls the dice, including the save and calculated the full and half damage and applies the results. Adding and tracking conditions, etc as necessary.

 

[Yaarel]

Automation, in this context, generally refers to the VTT doing stuff like the math, taking into account save and so forth,
For instance the wizard cast fireball, They select the creatures affected and activate the effect. The table rolls the dice, including the save and calculated the full and half damage and applies the results. Adding and tracking conditions, etc as necessary.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I guess that stuff (relating to tracking the character sheet stats) is important to me.

 

[SteveC]

What exactly do people mean by "automation"?

Is this textual stuff of keep track of the character sheet stats?

Or is it visual animation graphics?


The character sheet stuff is nice. Otherwise, all I need is a tool to create visually appealing maps easily and on the fly.

This is a really good question, and I can only answer it for me. I want the VTT to automate in-game stuff. I'm not one who wants to see a fireball explode in animation or have a sword swing with a "wooosh" sound, although you can do that with most VTTs. That's something I don't care about.

What I do want is the VTT to take care of my character. If I have spells or abilities, I want it to track usage. If I cast a fireball, I want to place a template, have it select whoever is in it, and then roll saves for me. And then apply damage.

I want to be able to target creatures, and have it do all the math for attacking. I don't think this is in 5.5E, but if you flank, it should handle that. And I should be able to apply conditions to a target and have it be automated.

Oh, and I expect to handle initiative or combat order tracking too.

Outside of combat I just just want the VTT to let me easily make skill checks and saves, any die rolls I ask for.

That's just me, of course. You can have it do more or less, but that's the sweet spot for me.