Sign of Things to Come?

[Chainsaw]

As for the food... While I agree it's something I wouldn't use in my games; is it really all that much difefrent then say the mechanics of a healing potion?

Since we can explain one by magic it's suddenly perfectly valid? (Even though the D&D world is filled with things that could in no way shape or form be true in our own real world?)

Really I guess my thought is the answer to his comment is: No in this game food does not have a healing effect. It's not a videogame no videogame thing in my opinion. It's just a question of mechanics.

In one game that he played people can heal damage to their hit points (a nebulous only half heartedly explained idea) with food. In the game that you were running they could only heal damaged hit points (a nebulous only half heartedly explained idea) through other means.

Back in my 2E campaigns, we used various mechanics for healing - potions (uncommon, not able to be bought, but healed alot fast), herbs (common, able to be bought, but only healed a little and couldn't be used more than once an encounter), wands (nobody ever got one of these), spells (fairly common, go to the local cleric for a miracle) and sleeping at an inn (a little better than an herb). Can't say we ever used food, but probably just because we already had four or five other methods - not because food's necessarily a bad idea. I *do* remember always starving to death in Ultima Exodus for 8-bit Nintendo. Maybe that left a bad taste in my mouth (har har).

Anyway, seems to me that as long as the group agrees to use mechanics that are relatively logically consistent with how it conceptualizes HP, then all's well. I could see HP being very abstract, maybe representing just weariness and stamina until zero, when it represented a fatal wound or something. In that system, you could easily just use rest, food and herbs to heal.

I'd tend to use whatever HP conception and healing mechanic fit the setting I wanted to evoke. If I'm low-magic, then we're doing stamina and food/inn healing. If we're high-magic, then maybe we're using actual physical, bloody wounds and potions/spells.

Edit: Incidentally, I'm playing in a 4E campaign now, but I haven't had any issues with the second wind or healing surge mechanic, largely because of the approach I mention above. It all boils down to the DM and players agreeing to "skin" the mechanic in a way that suits their setting, I suppose.

 

[Lacyon]

The fact that 4E has food as a notable purchasable item and doesn't link it to any game mechanics is a pretty wild oddity, really. You are expected to buy rations, but it is nothing more than a fluff/nod-to-simulationism element. Having it appear on a pregen character sheet is probably a mistake, since it can distract attention but serves no real purpose to the game itself (and certainly is needed there in order to learn the game).

This isn't entirely true, as 4E does have a starvation mechanic. That said, it probably isn't required to learn the game, since it isn't a major subsystem. It's definitely natural to wonder how characters recover hp (and associate recovery with food).

 

[Mournblade94]

They were enthusiastic kids trying a new game. They assumed it would work like other games with which they were familiar.

You had a chance to teach them a new way to have fun. I hope you kept your worries about Kids These Days to yourself, and didn't blow it.

I'll take an enthusiastic newb who's only familiar with computerized RPGs over an experienced curmudgeon any day of the week. The newb can learn.

An experienced Curmudgeon often intimidates those of less experience. They can usually pull the DM job off better.

 

[Mallus]

They can usually pull the DM job off better.

In this case they didn't.

 

[Edgewood]

In this case they didn't.

Which case are you referring to?

 

[RFisher]

Ultimately, it is the job of the DM to let the players have fun, even if their idea of fun is a bit different than yours. This is particularly true when playing with people inexperienced with the game. It is always better to let someone be excited about a style of playing they bring to the table, rather than force the table's style of playing upon the player.

I’m all for the GM considering the players’ desire. I’m all for people playing the game however they want.

But I think there is much value in trying to understand how the game was meant to be played before you twist it to fit your preferences. i think there’s even more value in that for inexperienced players.

What I tend to think is wrong—whether the player is inexperienced or not—is not letting them know and giving them a chance to rethink a bad choice.

e.g. “If you do that, these guys will get an attack-of-opportunity against you...” Because most of the time, big threatening monsters are obviously threatening to the character even if they aren’t so much on the battlemat.

e.g. “There’s a good chance that could kill everybody...”

On a totally different topic... I outright reject the idea that books are somehow more related to the D&D experience than videogames. At the core, books, like movies and television, are totally passive and linear experiences, that convey story but have no other element. Videogames and tabletop RPGs are at least both kinds of games, so they share far more in common with each other than they do with books or films.

RPGs are arguably not games.

Arguably some computer games aren’t either, but I don’t think SimCity is the type of computer game being discussed in this thread.

Books tend to depict protagonists who have the kind of nigh infinite options that PCs in RPGs have (and which sets RPGs apart from most computer and board games). Books tend to depict worlds without “power ups” and other artifacts found in the worlds of many computer games.

I see your point. I’m just not convinced it’s that simple.

 

[Cadfan]

An experienced Curmudgeon often intimidates those of less experience. They can usually pull the DM job off better.

In my experience this is rarely the case, because part of being a good DM is not being a killjoy. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Attitude matters.

 

[maddman75]

Re: the grenade in the cockpit. I allow takebacks with new players. I'd explain, "Dude, that's a grenade! Its a SERIOUSLY BIG EXPLOSION! Don't use it in this little enclosed space! Why don't you just shoot him, and save the grenade for something bigger?" The goal would be to try to make him feel like he's got something awesome (a grenade!), while also preventing him from using at that exact moment. That way he doesn't feel bad, and no one explodes.

Another option would be to have the cockpit destroyed and the ship wildly careening toward the planet and they need to frantically try to control the damaged ship and keep it from crashing (or more properly, control how badly it crashes)

Then they'll crash nearby some weird alien monsters that want to a) eat them b) enslave them c) steal their droids or d) rip the female PC's clothes just enough to be tittillating but not enough to lose the PG rating.

That sounds more Star Wars to me.

 

[Reynard]

I think what the OP was concerned about was not that the kids thought that food should heal them, but that after it was explained to them that was not the case, they were put off. And, without any more information to go on, I would guess that they were put off because that meant there wasn't anything obvious on their character sheets that would heal them. This, in turn, does indicate something of a "videogame" mindset (though, admittedly, it's a relatively narrow definition of "videogame", even in the CRPG genre): their assumption was that, like in a videogame, if they see a monster, they run up on it and beat it to death and then take a couple red potions before moving on to the next monster (don't forget to loot). To be fair, though, this is hardly a mindset unique to inexperienced gamers.

On the subject of videogames and tabletop games, I would suggest anyone interested in the relationship between the two to pick up Dungeons and Dreamers. it is a very informative and interesting look at how tabletop RPGs (and D&D in particular) inspired the existence of videogames and how they two have enjoyed a symbiotic developmental relationship since.

I also whole heartedly disagree with Cadfan that it is incumbent on the DM to ignore all else in favor of the players preferences and expectations, but that's another thread (one that we've had here many times, and I am sure will again).

 

[Aeolius]

An experienced Curmudgeon often intimidates those of less experience. They can usually pull the DM job off better.

"Respect is fine, but actually I've always wanted to be feared." - Arachnophobia