Silly economics of DnD

[KarinsDad]

Rather than multiplying wages as you suggest, use the minimum wahe paid now, multiply it by 2000 hours, and you'll have the bottom-end of the earnings scale, the working poor indeed. $100K income is about the line for the middle-middle class, and 250K is near the place where medial upper middle class income falls.

I multiply the wages because that is what is needed to get the wages and the item costs from the books in line with each other.

If I do it the way you suggest, I can come up with the bottom of the scale. 2000 hours * $6 (approximately) per hour = $12,000 per year.

Then, 1 SP per day * 240 working days (in our society) per year = 240 SP. 240 SP = $12,000 or 1 SP = $50.

So:

backpack $1000
simple house $500,000
grand house $2,500,000
longsword costs $7500
poor meal costs $50
common meal $150
good meal $250
poor inn per day $100
common inn per day $250
good inn per day $1000

This ratio between wages and goods is way out of line. But, if you multiply the wages by 5, it becomes 1200 SP = $12,000 or 1 SP = $10. So, the cost of goods then becomes affordable:

backpack $200
simple house $100,000
grand house $500,000
longsword costs $1500
poor meal costs $10
common meal $30
good meal $50
poor inn per day $20
common inn per day $50
good inn per day $200

These prices seem more in line with what a $12,000 per year minimum wage society could afford. The exact same ratio as what a 5 SP per day poor laborer in the game could afford if you multiply the wages by 5.

Simple. Easy. Extremely few changes. Close enough for government work and easy for players to understand. And, it solves the main problem of the hirelings not getting paid enough to afford the goods.

 

[Vaxalon]

You're still using standards of wealth that are modern in nature.

Do the analysis using a preindustrial society like rural Mexico where the wage is more like $1000 a year.

 

[LostSoul]

So, a day laborer could bring home a chicken every day. But, what would he pay his rent with (cannot have a garden like you mentioned without a place to put it)? The remaining 3 coppers? How would he clothe his children, his wife, and himself? How could he afford to replace a tool that got broken. How could he afford the flour you were talking about?

Do they really "pay" rent in the same sense that we do today? I thought the deal was: serfdom for the rights to work the land. Of course there are taxes, but if your taxes mean people can't afford to eat you're probably going to want to lower them (during peacetime, that is).

As far as houses go, I think the prices in the book are on the high side. But if you consider that a community would probably band together to build a house, it becomes more affordable. In the end it probably takes 333 gp and most of the community Taking 10 on Craft checks for a week or two. I think a town of 500 (adults) could make three or four homes a year.

I guess I feel that if you can buy five chickens for yourself each day, you're making enough to feed yourself.

 

[LostSoul]

I don't like equating gold or silver to real-word values. That makes the assumption that the economy in the game world is close to our own modern, democratic, industrialized nation-states.

 

[KarinsDad]

You're still using standards of wealth that are modern in nature.

Do the analysis using a preindustrial society like rural Mexico where the wage is more like $1000 a year.

Why bother?

Do you live in Mexico? Do your players? Will your players quickly understand the differences?

Everyone should do an analysis based on where they live since their players live there too.

If you live in England and 50 pounds per GP makes sense, then use it.

Why would you want to create a conversion system for a country that your players do not live in?

 

[SableWyvern]

If I may put words into KarinsDad's mouth, the point with his system (certainly, the reason I have now adopted it) is not that it necessarily recreates a realistic Western medieval economy (or any other historical economy).

What it does do, however, is create an economic system that works on the level required for an average gamer not interested in deep socio-economic questions, and is easily understood by said gamers.

While it may or may not be realistically appropriate, any problems are not immediately apparent to someone ignorant of how real historical socio-economic systems work in minuatae.

The important factor is that the system has a balance in the eyes of the participants, and is not likely to cause problematic questions to arise (certainly fewer than the present system).

The system may not be satisfactory for players who take a more serious interest in realistically simulating a specific historical economy. For others, it does.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

The important factor is that the system has a balance in the eyes of the participants, and is not likely to cause problematic questions to arise (certainly fewer than the present system).

The system may not be satisfactory for players who take a more serious interest in realistically simulating a specific historical economy. For others, it does.

That seems to be what he's trying to say, yes. Let's face it, D&D was never meant as an economic simulation. For some of us, tweaking the monetary system just enough so that it can be shoved back into the background where it belongs, is enough.

 

[Conaill]

SO... all wages in the DMG times 5.

That's an easy enough change. What are some other minimal changes we could make to the DnD economics to make them more realistic?

Anyone want to tackle the 1000gp/day magic item creation vs ~40gp/week mundane item creation?

 

[SableWyvern]

SO... all wages in the DMG times 5.

That's an easy enough change. What are some other minimal changes we could make to the DnD economics to make them more realistic?

Anyone want to tackle the 1000gp/day magic item creation vs ~40gp/week mundane item creation?

Barter?

I'm sure the average high level mage would be much more interested in receiving items to the value of what he is creating, rather than cash. Maybe so much so that he won't even work for cash.

Of course, then you have a potential problem in that adventurers don't have anything to spend their horde of gold on. One possible solution there though, is to simply make widespread replacements of cash with items/goods (ie, PCs are more likely to find items than cash).

I once had a party sell a flaming sword to a rich landowner who paid with 60 head of cattle. He simply couldn't get his hands on the sort of cash involved in the deal.

 

[Conaill]

bump