Timeboxer
Explorer
At least, I think it's silly, but others may think differently. Sorry if the title was unhelpful, but I'm not entirely sure how to summarize this situation succinctly.
I'll preface this with the actual question: By the rules, do you have to pay an XP or gp cost for events that occur in a character's back history which would have cost XP or gp?
The situation is perhaps excessively subtle and overly complicated, but it is this: My GM wants to run a Rules As Written game and has allowed me to create a Level 15 character (105,000 XP). I want to make a wizard who has taken a prestige class with the prerequisite, "The candidate must have created at least one magic item, whether of a permanent nature or not." I figure that, well, I made a wizard who gets Scribe Scroll for free, and she's bound to have scribed a scroll at some point in her life -- at minimum, a Scroll of Magic Missile or something, which she used early in her adventuring career. Wizards scribe all the time, after all.
However, my GM says that as a result of taking this prestige class, my character is now no longer Level 15 with 105,000 XP, but instead a Level 14 character with 104,999 XP. The reason being that if I have created a character who has taken a prestige class with that prerequisite, I must therefore pay the 1 XP for a magic item which I created in the past but now no longer possess.
He points to page 199 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, which states: "A PC spellcaster created at a level higher than 1st can use any of the XP and gp you have awarded to make magic items, provided that she has the proper item creation feats and prerequisites." Therefore, he says, even if you no longer possess the item, you must, by the rules, pay for all magic items that your character has ever created in her backstory by spending XP from the pool given you by the GM.
"But GM," I say, "that doesn't make any sense. If you had a character who took a prestige class that required that 'You must have died and been raised from the dead through the use of Raise Dead,' would that mean that you would now be one level lower?"
"Well, yes," he says. "If you have a character who has lost a level in his history, then you have less XP now."
"But GM," I say, "if you let someone make a level 5 character, and they want to make a character who used to be level 20, was level-drained to level 1, and is now level 5, would you make them 'pay' for the lost 19 levels, so that now they are at level -14?"
"Well, no," he says. "I would say that that simply isn't a valid character, by the rules. You get a certain amount of XP to work with, and you can never exceed that boundary in your history."
"But GM," I say, "all Wizards get Scribe Scroll for free. Are you saying that if you give me 15 levels and I make a level 15 wizard, I can never have scribed a scroll ever in my back history?"
"Well, yes," he says. "There's no reason why a Wizard ever needs to scribe a scroll. If you had, you would've paid the cost. So it's reasonable to say you never have."
I point to the same page, where it talks about Charged Magic Items: "A player may select a partially used magic item for part of his character's starting gear. Such an item's value is proportional to the charges left compared to the charges in a newly created item..."
"There, see?" I say. "You have a character who bought a wand with 50 charges, but they spent 25 adventuring. Now it only has 25 charges, but it's not worth as much as a 50-charge wand -- it's worth a 25-charge wand. You only have to 'pay' for the worth of the wand in gp as it currently exists in your possession. By the same logic, you should only have to 'pay' XP for something that currently exists in your possession."
"You're making things too complicated. The character just bought a 25-charge wand, plain and simple."
"It doesn't say 'bought', it says 'select.'"
"That's just semantics. But good point. Mail WotC customer service and ask them for an official ruling."
I do so, but they are horribly unhelpful, and I'm still discussing it with them -- their initial reply was essentially, "Well, the GM can award you more experience to let you create items, or less if he doesn't want you to. It's his call." But this isn't the question at hand -- I can understand if the GM wants to award, say, 104,999 XP rather than 105,000 XP, and this is well within the GM's discretion. But to say that you have to pay XP from your current XP for a past event in your character's life, and that this is an official, by-the-book ruling, strikes me as absurd. To me, it's perfectly obvious that your wealth and your XP represent your character's current state, and I see no reason why this would not be so. Beyond that, even if you did possess an item that you created, I see no reason why you would be unable to value this item in terms of its market price rather than its creation cost in XP and gp.
So there it is. I doubt that my GM will accept any source other than the book or WotC itself as "official," but any help would be very much appreciated.
I'll preface this with the actual question: By the rules, do you have to pay an XP or gp cost for events that occur in a character's back history which would have cost XP or gp?
The situation is perhaps excessively subtle and overly complicated, but it is this: My GM wants to run a Rules As Written game and has allowed me to create a Level 15 character (105,000 XP). I want to make a wizard who has taken a prestige class with the prerequisite, "The candidate must have created at least one magic item, whether of a permanent nature or not." I figure that, well, I made a wizard who gets Scribe Scroll for free, and she's bound to have scribed a scroll at some point in her life -- at minimum, a Scroll of Magic Missile or something, which she used early in her adventuring career. Wizards scribe all the time, after all.
However, my GM says that as a result of taking this prestige class, my character is now no longer Level 15 with 105,000 XP, but instead a Level 14 character with 104,999 XP. The reason being that if I have created a character who has taken a prestige class with that prerequisite, I must therefore pay the 1 XP for a magic item which I created in the past but now no longer possess.
He points to page 199 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, which states: "A PC spellcaster created at a level higher than 1st can use any of the XP and gp you have awarded to make magic items, provided that she has the proper item creation feats and prerequisites." Therefore, he says, even if you no longer possess the item, you must, by the rules, pay for all magic items that your character has ever created in her backstory by spending XP from the pool given you by the GM.
"But GM," I say, "that doesn't make any sense. If you had a character who took a prestige class that required that 'You must have died and been raised from the dead through the use of Raise Dead,' would that mean that you would now be one level lower?"
"Well, yes," he says. "If you have a character who has lost a level in his history, then you have less XP now."
"But GM," I say, "if you let someone make a level 5 character, and they want to make a character who used to be level 20, was level-drained to level 1, and is now level 5, would you make them 'pay' for the lost 19 levels, so that now they are at level -14?"
"Well, no," he says. "I would say that that simply isn't a valid character, by the rules. You get a certain amount of XP to work with, and you can never exceed that boundary in your history."
"But GM," I say, "all Wizards get Scribe Scroll for free. Are you saying that if you give me 15 levels and I make a level 15 wizard, I can never have scribed a scroll ever in my back history?"
"Well, yes," he says. "There's no reason why a Wizard ever needs to scribe a scroll. If you had, you would've paid the cost. So it's reasonable to say you never have."
I point to the same page, where it talks about Charged Magic Items: "A player may select a partially used magic item for part of his character's starting gear. Such an item's value is proportional to the charges left compared to the charges in a newly created item..."
"There, see?" I say. "You have a character who bought a wand with 50 charges, but they spent 25 adventuring. Now it only has 25 charges, but it's not worth as much as a 50-charge wand -- it's worth a 25-charge wand. You only have to 'pay' for the worth of the wand in gp as it currently exists in your possession. By the same logic, you should only have to 'pay' XP for something that currently exists in your possession."
"You're making things too complicated. The character just bought a 25-charge wand, plain and simple."
"It doesn't say 'bought', it says 'select.'"
"That's just semantics. But good point. Mail WotC customer service and ask them for an official ruling."
I do so, but they are horribly unhelpful, and I'm still discussing it with them -- their initial reply was essentially, "Well, the GM can award you more experience to let you create items, or less if he doesn't want you to. It's his call." But this isn't the question at hand -- I can understand if the GM wants to award, say, 104,999 XP rather than 105,000 XP, and this is well within the GM's discretion. But to say that you have to pay XP from your current XP for a past event in your character's life, and that this is an official, by-the-book ruling, strikes me as absurd. To me, it's perfectly obvious that your wealth and your XP represent your character's current state, and I see no reason why this would not be so. Beyond that, even if you did possess an item that you created, I see no reason why you would be unable to value this item in terms of its market price rather than its creation cost in XP and gp.
So there it is. I doubt that my GM will accept any source other than the book or WotC itself as "official," but any help would be very much appreciated.
