"Siloing" Class Abilities

[delericho]

That sounds good. It's often bugged me that the Wizard has to load up on combat magics, and neglect the utility magics, because he doesn't want to get caught short. I just hope they've figured out how to properly balance it.

 

[Victim]

It sounds more like separate pools of resources for different types of effects. As mentioned above, the choices are between Fireball/Lightning Bolt (or perhaps Haste, depending on how they loosely they group things) and then Phantom Steed/Tongues and such for the utility set of magics.

It does make characterizing a wizard as more generally combative or non combative more difficult though, unless talents and such pick up the slack. I'm kind of used to considering casters as spell selections first, and other elements second. More robust base features might change that, however.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I disagree with the interpretations so far...

To me, it sounds more like each individual spell is going to be more flexible, the opposite direction of movement from 3.5, where spells with versatility were seperated into different spells with no versatility.

For example, a Globe of Fire spell might have just been an attack before, it can now be used to create a potent, long lasting light source as well. Or a Bigsby's Hand spell can now be used to lift objects or move statues in addition to grappling or pushing foes. Or maybe a Phantom Steed can be used to send a ghost steed forward to trample foes in a line, instead of just being used as a mount.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

To me, it sounds more like each individual spell is going to be more flexible, the opposite direction of movement from 3.5, where spells with versatility were seperated into different spells with no versatility.

I'd like this if it's what they plan on doing.

 

[jasin]

For example, a Globe of Fire spell might have just been an attack before, it can now be used to create a potent, long lasting light source as well. Or a Bigsby's Hand spell can now be used to lift objects or move statues in addition to grappling or pushing foes. Or maybe a Phantom Steed can be used to send a ghost steed forward to trample foes in a line, instead of just being used as a mount.

This would be awesome.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Sounds kinda like they are going from:

"What do I pick, Fireball or Phantom Steed? This is a tough decision, I hope I make the right one. I'll prepare..."

to

"Screw it, Wizards can do anything they want now"

They're saying that Fireball over Phantom Steed was a no-brainer, there wasn't a real decision to be made.

Now players are able to take fun, flavorful, less optimal spells *without* compromising the success of the mission. Looks like a winner to me.

 

[Aloïsius]

Remember that some powers/spells will be "at will", some will be "per encounter" and some will be "per day".

It means that, depending of the category of the spell, you may have prepared phantom steed (use it once per day) ; memorized fireball (usable once per encounter) and still be able to use "arcane strike" at will.

Of course, it means that you don't have prepared scry, are not able to use "haste" once per encounter, and don't have readied your arcane shield for the day. Choices, options, but more of them.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Does that work in AU/E?

It seems to me that a wizard with two readied spells and X slots will still just ready fireball and haste rather than phantom steed and fireball.

It works great in AE in practice, even better than you would expect on paper. Part of it is that AE pares the spell list down. Part of it is because the spells scale better. (So no point in taking a second attack spell as one of your 3rd level readied spells, when your 2nd and 1st level attack spells still work great.) Sure, those levels when you get your first slot of a given spell level, the caster tends to take the equivalent of fireball or something equally flashy and direct. And I daresay a 5th level wizard with AE casting, and the complete list of 3.5 spells would be tempted to go with haste and something flashy, over phantom steed. But what you don't have is that same wizard at 7th or 9th level, now that he has 3 to 5 3rd level options, stocking up on nothing but the obvious. It's a cross between Vancian slots and the Sorcerer.

To me, it sounds more like each individual spell is going to be more flexible, the opposite direction of movement from 3.5, where spells with versatility were seperated into different spells with no versatility.

Note that AU introduced "diminished" and "heightened" spells--a version of each spell one level lower, and one level higher--that is automatically readied when you ready the base version. So if you readied, sorcerous blast (AE fireball) as a 3rd level spell, you could also use a 2nd level slot to cast it single target or a 4th level slot to cast it with improved damage. I expect you are correct, and that 4E will build a similar but even more flexible way to modify spells. However, this is not necessarily instead of the AE casting, as the two changes are mutually reinforcing.

I dunno about Hero, but it reminds me of Power Arrays in Mutants and Masterminds

Well, that's no surprise, since the M&M versions are a direct analog of the Hero frameworks, the multiipower and elemental control.

 

[Masquerade]

It sounds more like separate pools of resources for different types of effects. As mentioned above, the choices are between Fireball/Lightning Bolt (or perhaps Haste, depending on how they loosely they group things) and then Phantom Steed/Tongues and such for the utility set of magics.

It does make characterizing a wizard as more generally combative or non combative more difficult though, unless talents and such pick up the slack. I'm kind of used to considering casters as spell selections first, and other elements second. More robust base features might change that, however.

This is how I read it, also, and I share the same concerns.

As long as I could still create two very different spellcasters using the same class (which isn't difficult at all for SWSE's Jedi, from what I understand), I would be very satisfied by this approach.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Not sure I like the sound of this. If phantom steed is too weak move it down a level otherwise a caster character should have to make choices between utility versus combat.

But what do I know? Have to wait and see when it comes out, the magic system is receiving such a large overhaul after all.