D&D 5E Silvery Barbs, how would you fix it? Does it need fixing?

[Bolares]

Which is a higher level spell slot. There's already the dilemma of "do I use my reaction to possibly negate this attack with Shield, or do I wait to see if I can possibly Counterspell". IMO, adding another moving part (Silvery Barbs as a 2nd level spell) wouldn't really change that dynamic, more just add another moving part to it.

Aaand that’s why it’s not overpowered

 

[ad_hoc]

A better fix would be to nix the success-negating potential you impose on the target and trigger off an opponent rolling with advantage. Then the effect would be to nullify the advantage on that roll and move it to an ally.

I'm not following you.

Aaand that’s why it’s not overpowered

Counterspell is a 3rd level spell that only works in specific circumstances and then those circumstances are going to be even rarer once the new monster books come out.

Shield only works against attacks and only against you.

This spell forces a reroll of a successful Saving Throw. There is nothing else to compare it to.

You can cast Banishment on a creature and if they succeed you just tack on this 1st level spell and you get a whole new Banishment attempt without the action cost or 4th level spell slot.

And then there is also the part of granting advantage on top of it.

This spell is not only the best 1st level spell but it is also better than all 2nd level spells in the game too.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Aaand that’s why it’s not overpowered

I don't buy that a spell can't be overpowered because it competes with another spell of the same casting time. Spells are balanced based on what's contained within the spell description and how they relate to similar spells, not how they compete with action economy.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Well, it's a spell designed to reduce the opponent's success, isn't it? So the only problem with it is that it's called Silvery Barbs when it should have been Silvery Shave.

Besides that, there's nothing to fix. QWFTW.

 

[billd91]

I'm not following you.

As written, Silvery Barbs has an effect that ranges from debuff to outright thwart - particularly since you know the roll would have succeeded in the absence of the spell. This thwart is about 95% effective against your typical crits, its (probably) strongest effect. Add on the potential to give someone a double-dip on forcing a save as you point out below, and, I agree, that's too powerful for a 1st level spell. And that's even before considering that it gives advantage to someone else.
My suggestion would be more along the lines of keeping it to debuff levels by not waiting until you know if someone has succeeded, but just strip away any advantage they have and move it elsewhere. It's less of a thwart because you don't know they've succeeded yet, you're just undermining them. And it would be nowhere near as widely useful because it would be based on advantage, not success, and advantage is less common than succeeding at a die roll. I think that's much more in line with a spell that's a useful reaction without being so good that everyone really wants it in their prepped spells.

This spell forces a reroll of a successful Saving Throw. There is nothing else to compare it to.

You can cast Banishment on a creature and if they succeed you just tack on this 1st level spell and you get a whole new Banishment attempt without the action cost or 4th level spell slot.

And then there is also the part of granting advantage on top of it.

This spell is not only the best 1st level spell but it is also better than all 2nd level spells in the game too.

 

[Shiroiken]

it does seem strong, but I would like to see it in play before I ban it.

Same. My only issue would be the effect on saves, since effectively granting disadvantage on saving throws is pretty rare. It's other benefits are strong, but not much more powerful than Shield or Endure Elements, which are the go-to defensive level 1 spells. If the secondary effect was considered too strong, I'd simply limit it to be used before the end of the original target's next turn. rather than giving a minute.

 

[ad_hoc]

As written, Silvery Barbs has an effect that ranges from debuff to outright thwart - particularly since you know the roll would have succeeded in the absence of the spell. This thwart is about 95% effective against your typical crits, its (probably) strongest effect. Add on the potential to give someone a double-dip on forcing a save as you point out below, and, I agree, that's too powerful for a 1st level spell. And that's even before considering that it gives advantage to someone else.
My suggestion would be more along the lines of keeping it to debuff levels by not waiting until you know if someone has succeeded, but just strip away any advantage they have and move it elsewhere. It's less of a thwart because you don't know they've succeeded yet, you're just undermining them. And it would be nowhere near as widely useful because it would be based on advantage, not success, and advantage is less common than succeeding at a die roll. I think that's much more in line with a spell that's a useful reaction without being so good that everyone really wants it in their prepped spells.

So in reaction to a creature rolling with advantage on something you cast the spell and transfer that advantage to another target?

That's cool.

 

[Stormonu]

I'd say it's fine as is. If you feel it's too strong, change the reaction to using it BEFORE the roll is made - it simply applies disadvantage to the roll.

 

[CleverNickName]

Huh, another way to grant Advantage. I'm shocked.
Let's just take this whole thing to its logical conclusion, and allow all rolls to have advantage automatically?

EDIT: This started out as a snarky complaint about how Everything Must Be Advantage^TM, but then I started to seriously think about it. I mean, would it really break anything if all characters, all monsters, all traps, and all effects roll at Advantage right out of the gate? That seems to be the way folks want to play it, and I've seen Twitter posts from developers suggesting this is the way it was intended to be anyway...so...why not? What happens if we get rid of the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic (and the ceaseless arguing about it), and have only Advantage/Normal?

If nothing else, the person playing the rogue would finally be able to just relax and call their actions, without needing 10 minutes to analyze the battlefield every time a token moves.

 

[TwoSix]

Huh, another way to grant Advantage. I'm shocked.
Let's just take this whole thing to its logical conclusion, and allow all rolls to have advantage automatically?

EDIT: This started out as a snarky complaint about how Everything Must Be Advantage^TM, but then I started to seriously think about it. I mean, would it really break anything if all characters, all monsters, all traps, and all effects roll at Advantage right out of the gate? That seems to be the way folks want to play it, and I've seen Twitter posts from developers suggesting this is the way it was intended to be anyway...so...why not? What happens if we get rid of the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic (and the ceaseless arguing about it), and have only Advantage/Normal?

If nothing else, the person playing the rogue would finally be able to just relax and call their actions, without needing 10 minutes to analyze the battlefield every time a token moves.

To look at it non-snarkily, it's because you'd have to redesign large swathes of the game that are built on granting advantage. And honestly, there are a lot of ways to temporarily gain advantage but you have to work pretty hard to benefit from it all the time.