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Simpler AoOs

I hope they get rid of AoOs.

Since they have anounced that they will be there still, I hope AoO's work this way:
1. When you disengage an enemy.
2. When you engage an enemy.
3. When you cast or shoot while engaged.

Engagements
To engage an enemy, you must attack them with a melee attack, both combatants are now engaged with one another. To disengage from a combatant, disengager must move out of the combatants reach.
 

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Li Shenron said:
On the other hand, the previews have mentioned monsters and characters do more things than before as reactions, which is certainly going to complicate and slow combat a little bit. And if "reactions" doesn't mean AoOs but means also something new, then it's another complication.
Hm. Good point. It's obviously too early to really say, but this looks like something worth keeping an eye on. I can definitely imagine this becoming a hassle.
 

I like half of the Iron Heroes fix (if you take something other than a melee attack action while in a threatened area). The movement one I think is covered best by treating threatened areas as difficult terrain. If you move through it at half speed, you're "moving defensively" and don't draw an AoO. If you move through a threatened area at full speed, you drop your defenses too much and get whacked.
 

ainatan said:
I'm not sure, but IIRC AoO attacks do not provoke AoOs.

From the latest FAQ:
Is it possible for an attack of opportunity to provoke an
attack of opportunity? For example, a fighter attempts to
trip a cleric. The cleric chooses to make a sunder attack
against the fighter’s weapon as his attack of opportunity.
Does the sunder attack then provoke an attack of
opportunity from the fighter?

Yes. An attack of opportunity is adjudicated just like any
other attack, and it is subject to the same rules (including
provoking additional attacks of opportunity). This can lead to
odd situations where as the reason for the original action no
longer exists. If this starts to confuse you, just remember that
D&D combat is an abstract representation of battle, and not
necessarily a precise second-by-second representation of every
maneuver. Even the “sequential” nature of D&D combat—I
make my attacks, then you make your attacks, then I make my
attacks, and so forth—is an artificial creation used to keep
combat moving quickly.
Using the example you provide, the fighter is indeed
allowed to make an attack of opportunity against the cleric.
(This attack could, in turn, provoke yet another attack of
opportunity from the cleric, but the cleric could make such an
attack only if he were allowed more than one attack of
opportunity in a single round.)
These attacks are performed in a “Last In, First Out”
sequence. The last attack of opportunity declared is the first one
resolved, with the remaining attacks resolved in reverse order
of their declaration, assuming the character can still make the
attack. If the fighter drops the cleric with his attack of
opportunity, the rest of the attacks in the sequence—including
the cleric’s attack of opportunity and the fighter’s original trip
attack—do not occur. The actions are still “spent,” however—
the fighter doesn’t get to use that original attack on some other
target (although if he has other attacks remaining he may take
them as normal).
 

Sadrik said:
I hope they get rid of AoOs.

Since they have anounced that they will be there still, I hope AoO's work this way:
1. When you disengage an enemy.
2. When you engage an enemy.
3. When you cast or shoot while engaged.

Engagements
To engage an enemy, you must attack them with a melee attack, both combatants are now engaged with one another. To disengage from a combatant, disengager must move out of the combatants reach.
#1 doesn't work unless you at least keep the 5 foot step exception. Otherwise combatants will never move in the area of combat, except possibly to circle each other. Indications have been that 4e will be a more "mobile" combat, so I don't see #1 fitting in with that idea.

I would hope they don't even consider #2. The person who attacks first, actually gets attacked before they can go? That makes no sense to me at all.
 

Thornir Alekeg said:
#1 doesn't work unless you at least keep the 5 foot step exception. Otherwise combatants will never move in the area of combat, except possibly to circle each other. Indications have been that 4e will be a more "mobile" combat, so I don't see #1 fitting in with that idea.

I would hope they don't even consider #2. The person who attacks first, actually gets attacked before they can go? That makes no sense to me at all.
You are right, this does make things less mobile. It would be my fix to the current 3.5 system though.

Again, I wish they would just go away. And then make a talent/feat that says: make an attack when someone takes a non-attack action within your reach.
 

Lets not forget the delightful paradox of paralyzed characters. A guy standing there, doing nothing, completely helpless doesnt provoke an AoO, but trying to smack a sword out of someone's hand DOES?
 

The simple solution is that a creature that is provoking does not threaten.

In other words, because someone is attempting a Trip, that is what they are concentrating on. They do not threaten with their weapon beyond the Trip itself.
 

ehren37 said:
Lets not forget the delightful paradox of paralyzed characters. A guy standing there, doing nothing, completely helpless doesnt provoke an AoO, but trying to smack a sword out of someone's hand DOES?

A simple solution to this is to allow one AoO per round against anyone who lowers his guard, including the paralyzed creature, the unconscious creature, etc.

This also adds a very evil tactical element. I know my nastiest NPCs would just love to take a free swing at the downed Fighter while fighting the Ranger. Just to be mean.
 

This is probably the biggest thing I'm hoping 4e addresses. AoOs are a cool concept, but need some very serious streamlining and simplification. They're much too complex in 3e. I'd also love to see them made more modular - as it is they're one of the default costs to performing many actions.

I think playing DDM made me realize how clunky D&D AoOs are.
-blarg
 

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