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DDAL Simulacrum can it be twinned.


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Yes. You would create another twin of a second creature you touch. Since it's a single casting of the spell, you do not run into the multiple casting clause.

However, Simulacrum is a Wizard spell, not a Sorcerer spell. Twinning a 7th level spell requires 7 Sorcery points, so you would have to be a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 13 at a minimum to accomplish this.
 

Yes. You would create another twin of a second creature you touch. Since it's a single casting of the spell, you do not run into the multiple casting clause.

However, Simulacrum is a Wizard spell, not a Sorcerer spell. Twinning a 7th level spell requires 7 Sorcery points, so you would have to be a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 13 at a minimum to accomplish this.

Or use the new feat in Unearthed Arcana.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Or use the new feat in Unearthed Arcana.
Even then it's wiz13/sor 5. Not really a good trade-off in my opinion. You give up an instant simulacrum every day a level sooner (using Wish), in in exchange for creating two simulacrums over the course of 12 hours. The latter might be nice for specific times when you really need the extra fire power, but the former is overall better for the long haul IMO.
 


jmartkdr2

Adventurer
Can a Simulacrum make a Simulacrum?
By the spell as written, generally yes, although Wizard 3 has 1/4 of Wizard Prime's hp - rounded down, so there's a limit where the new copy would have 0 max hp and instantly die. Usually the seventh or so.

Of course, many dm's would just tell you no anyways.
 

Mistwell

Legend
By the spell as written, generally yes, although Wizard 3 has 1/4 of Wizard Prime's hp - rounded down, so there's a limit where the new copy would have 0 max hp and instantly die. Usually the seventh or so.

Of course, many dm's would just tell you no anyways.

Not when my Murder of Simulacrum cast Silence on the DM!
 

ccooke

Adventurer
... So, you need to be a Cleric/Wizard, then.
Cast Simulacrum. The simulacrum then casts Aid on itself at the highest level it can, and casts Simulacrum...

(I'm having fun trying to decide exactly how I wouldn't let this work. There are some really interesting options!)
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
... So, you need to be a Cleric/Wizard, then.
Cast Simulacrum. The simulacrum then casts Aid on itself at the highest level it can, and casts Simulacrum...

(I'm having fun trying to decide exactly how I wouldn't let this work. There are some really interesting options!)
Simulacrum doesn't duplicate spells effects or gear, just the creature.

If you allow simulacrums to have simulacrums, you can get around the cumulative HP loss fairly easily. Just have the simulacrum duplicate the original creature rather than a simulacrum.

That said, I wouldn't allow a simulacrum to have a simulacrum in the first place.
 

ccooke

Adventurer
Simulacrum doesn't duplicate spells effects or gear, just the creature.

If you allow simulacrums to have simulacrums, you can get around the cumulative HP loss fairly easily. Just have the simulacrum duplicate the original creature rather than a simulacrum.

That said, I wouldn't allow a simulacrum to have a simulacrum in the first place.

That's not how the spell is written - it just takes the hit point maximum. If you had an effect which decreased your HPM, your simulacrum would have a decreased hp total, too.

I mean, I still probably wouldn't let a group get away with this sort of cheese :)
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
That's not how the spell is written - it just takes the hit point maximum. If you had an effect which decreased your HPM, your simulacrum would have a decreased hp total, too.

I mean, I still probably wouldn't let a group get away with this sort of cheese :)
Aid only temporarily increases your hit point maximum. By that reasoning you could argue that if the original was wearing a belt of giant strength that the simulacrum would have the enhanced strength as well, but that doesn't seem like very sound logic to me.

It seems fairly clear to me that the simulacrum spell duplicates a creature's permanent statistics, rather than being based off of temporary enhancements.
 

FarBeyondC

Explorer
This is in reference to the AL ruleset, which:

  1. Doesn't allow Unearthed Arcana
  2. Doesn't allow Simulacrum to cast Simulacrum or spells which would duplicate its effects (technically this should mean a Simulacrum in AL couldn't cast Wish, but the guidance on Wish says otherwise, so shrug
Anyway, unless Simulacrum successfully snuck its way onto the Sorcerer's spell list, the spell that a Sorcerer would be duplicating in this case would actually be Wish, which Sage Advice explicitly allows for despite it seemingly* making no sense via RAW.

*A lot of Sage Advice doesn't make sense unless you read them with the understanding that there is often no distinction made or assumed between the direct and the indirect.
 



jasper

Rotten DM
Here was the pcs for 09-20 which made me ask this question.
Baulder cleric/wizard total 19 with simulacrum.
Quintosis Sorcerer 17 Rogue 2 With a simulacrum of him and baulder.
Shade Bard 15 Warlock 3
Bolo'Sxhle Barbarain 9 Fighter 8.
Most of the time I don't question the builds and simulacrum but this time it struck me as kind of iffy. I allowed it but made the player post the question to the offical AL group.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
This is in reference to the AL ruleset, which:

  1. Doesn't allow Unearthed Arcana
  2. Doesn't allow Simulacrum to cast Simulacrum or spells which would duplicate its effects (technically this should mean a Simulacrum in AL couldn't cast Wish, but the guidance on Wish says otherwise, so shrug
Anyway, unless Simulacrum successfully snuck its way onto the Sorcerer's spell list, the spell that a Sorcerer would be duplicating in this case would actually be Wish, which Sage Advice explicitly allows for despite it seemingly* making no sense via RAW.

*A lot of Sage Advice doesn't make sense unless you read them with the understanding that there is often no distinction made or assumed between the direct and the indirect.
I know you're referring to AL/SA, but I wouldn't allow a twinned Wish. Wish has a range of Self in its entry, and Twin Spell explicitly excludes spells with a range of Self. It's pretty clear from a RAW standpoint that you can't twin a Wish.
 


Yes. You would create another twin of a second creature you touch. Since it's a single casting of the spell, you do not run into the multiple casting clause.

However, Simulacrum is a Wizard spell, not a Sorcerer spell. Twinning a 7th level spell requires 7 Sorcery points, so you would have to be a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 13 at a minimum to accomplish this.
Or, you can just cast Wish for a Simulacrum casting, and twin that.
 



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