DDAL Simulacrum can it be twinned.
- Thread starter jasper
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Bacon Bits
Hero
Yes. You would create another twin of a second creature you touch. Since it's a single casting of the spell, you do not run into the multiple casting clause.
However, Simulacrum is a Wizard spell, not a Sorcerer spell. Twinning a 7th level spell requires 7 Sorcery points, so you would have to be a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 13 at a minimum to accomplish this.
However, Simulacrum is a Wizard spell, not a Sorcerer spell. Twinning a 7th level spell requires 7 Sorcery points, so you would have to be a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 13 at a minimum to accomplish this.
Flamestrike
Legend
Or use the new feat in Unearthed Arcana.
Fanaelialae
Legend
Even then it's wiz13/sor 5. Not really a good trade-off in my opinion. You give up an instant simulacrum every day a level sooner (using Wish), in in exchange for creating two simulacrums over the course of 12 hours. The latter might be nice for specific times when you really need the extra fire power, but the former is overall better for the long haul IMO.
jmartkdr2
Hero
By the spell as written, generally yes, although Wizard 3 has 1/4 of Wizard Prime's hp - rounded down, so there's a limit where the new copy would have 0 max hp and instantly die. Usually the seventh or so.
Of course, many dm's would just tell you no anyways.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Not when my Murder of Simulacrum cast Silence on the DM!
Fanaelialae
Legend
Simulacrum doesn't duplicate spells effects or gear, just the creature.
If you allow simulacrums to have simulacrums, you can get around the cumulative HP loss fairly easily. Just have the simulacrum duplicate the original creature rather than a simulacrum.
That said, I wouldn't allow a simulacrum to have a simulacrum in the first place.
That's not how the spell is written - it just takes the hit point maximum. If you had an effect which decreased your HPM, your simulacrum would have a decreased hp total, too.
I mean, I still probably wouldn't let a group get away with this sort of cheese
Fanaelialae
Legend
Aid only temporarily increases your hit point maximum. By that reasoning you could argue that if the original was wearing a belt of giant strength that the simulacrum would have the enhanced strength as well, but that doesn't seem like very sound logic to me.That's not how the spell is written - it just takes the hit point maximum. If you had an effect which decreased your HPM, your simulacrum would have a decreased hp total, too.
I mean, I still probably wouldn't let a group get away with this sort of cheese
It seems fairly clear to me that the simulacrum spell duplicates a creature's permanent statistics, rather than being based off of temporary enhancements.
FarBeyondC
Explorer
This is in reference to the AL ruleset, which:
*A lot of Sage Advice doesn't make sense unless you read them with the understanding that there is often no distinction made or assumed between the direct and the indirect.
- Doesn't allow Unearthed Arcana
- Doesn't allow Simulacrum to cast Simulacrum or spells which would duplicate its effects (technically this should mean a Simulacrum in AL couldn't cast Wish, but the guidance on Wish says otherwise, so shrug
*A lot of Sage Advice doesn't make sense unless you read them with the understanding that there is often no distinction made or assumed between the direct and the indirect.
jasper
Rotten DM
Either in FAQ or an answer on the Facebook page, No.
jasper
Rotten DM
Sometimes I wish I could cast Silence on my players when they talk out of turn.
jasper
Rotten DM
Here was the pcs for 09-20 which made me ask this question.
Baulder cleric/wizard total 19 with simulacrum.
Quintosis Sorcerer 17 Rogue 2 With a simulacrum of him and baulder.
Shade Bard 15 Warlock 3
Bolo'Sxhle Barbarain 9 Fighter 8.
Most of the time I don't question the builds and simulacrum but this time it struck me as kind of iffy. I allowed it but made the player post the question to the offical AL group.
Baulder cleric/wizard total 19 with simulacrum.
Quintosis Sorcerer 17 Rogue 2 With a simulacrum of him and baulder.
Shade Bard 15 Warlock 3
Bolo'Sxhle Barbarain 9 Fighter 8.
Most of the time I don't question the builds and simulacrum but this time it struck me as kind of iffy. I allowed it but made the player post the question to the offical AL group.
Fanaelialae
Legend
I know you're referring to AL/SA, but I wouldn't allow a twinned Wish. Wish has a range of Self in its entry, and Twin Spell explicitly excludes spells with a range of Self. It's pretty clear from a RAW standpoint that you can't twin a Wish.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
OK get that the Simulacrum cannot make another Simulacrum by use of a FAQ or on Facebook, but can they make one by casting the spell?
[I was kidding Jasper
]
Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
Or, you can just cast Wish for a Simulacrum casting, and twin that.
Fanaelialae
Legend
Wish duplicates a spell; it doesn't allow you to cast it. You can't duplicate Wish itself because its range is self. Hence, because you're casting Wish and not Simulacrum, it can't be twinned.
Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
Yes, but not one of itself. The spell only works on Beasts and Humanoids, and Simulacrums are constructs.
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