D&D 5E Single class Hexblade - missing something?

[Paul Farquhar]

I am curious what your build would look like. Show me good enough. Please.

My build can look like anything, because I'm not bothering about being at least as good as something else.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I think with warlocks, using a spell slot is similar to a Fighter using Action Surge - a special move for special fights.

I would agree with that if their other features held up to that standard there spell list was not based around concentration. The problem is Wizards fo the coast was afraid the short rest mechanic would make warlocks really powerful so they made them flexible but had to buy every little thing. Hexbade is battle subclass the was made due to complaint about Pact of the blade being hard to manage. Honest, if pact magic was only once a day it would not effect most of my games since we largely have one encounter days. However, buying all the things other melee and even gish get doesn't leave much of warlocks to just be warlocks. Their subclasses invade their class features. No other class does that. Even artificers got infustions but they are built with solid class and subclass features so that infusions feel like fun instead of being taxed. On top of that only pact of the blade is really this way. Pact of the Chain and Pact of tomb work with can trips well enough you can just play with their features.

 

[ClaytonCross]

My build can look like anything, because I'm not bothering about being at least as good as something else.

So you don't do a session Zero with your group and you don't ask to fill a role in the party so that you don't step on others fun? I don't need my warlock to be as good as something else so much as comparing my build to other things is a form of measurement. I find tables and parties have minimum expectations based on party roles, assigned or naturally evolving.

Not sure if that is what you mean but I have tried naturally evolving roles. The result was we had 3 scouts in a 4 man party tripping all over each other always pissed that someone was trying to do "there job" the other party member was a paladin and we had a charisma heavy group and everyone thought they were the front man. It was a disaster, so two of us re-rolled. One as ranged damage and the other as crowd control.

Don't get me wrong, If you can just show up with any character not capable of anything specific and your whole party manages to magically not step on each others toes, That is great for you.

I find the table I have played at had more fun, when we deliberately separate party roles. We came up with 6 combat roles and 6 non-combat roles. Each player claims one of each, usually in a group of 4 so we never fill all the roles. If your character dies you pick from the combination of open roles including those open by other players that died at the same time. Since we started doing this we have fewer player problems and more fun. The perhaps down side of this from your view is that you character was "hired" into the party based on their skill set filling a role. You can always re-roll to any empty job or trade with filled one if the other player agrees, but it means when that job is needed every looks to you and in game as characters if your not filling your position you might get crap. In part because if the party wipes they player lose their characters too. This leads to wanting a minimum proficiency with chosen party job before filling features. No one complains about this at our table because they all feel important to the team, they all get their moments, they are all free to delver it with any build they think will work, and no one gets stepped on.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I find tables and parties have minimum expectations based on party roles, assigned or naturally evolving.

I think your tables take the game far more seriously than my tables.

Frankly, I wouldn't want to play at your tables.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I think your tables take the game far more seriously than my tables.

Frankly, I wouldn't want to play at your tables.

I don't think we take it all that seriously but we are in Okinawa Japan, the pool of players is small and rotates out frequently. Poeple are often home sick and some are young, still in there 20s. We created these measures because old friends and old players tend to have thicker skins, but new and younger players need some room to shine and feel important to the group feeding the "someone cares" about part of their brain they don't get from home any more. If we don't mind that some people get "butt hurt". Don't get me wronge most of us are former or active marines we can all take a punch in the face and insults all day long, but part of the reason our games are important out hear is the lack of family support and feeling of isolation. Players that don't feel like they contribute often still fill isolated or left out meaning they aren't getting since of community or able to relax and enjoy the game like they need and we want. I have been here for 17 Years so I am bit more resilient and flexible to this than most, but I have seen it enough to know that is important to a lot of players and their sanity. Seriosuly for those who have never left the states a monthly D&D game can help them stay sane.

 

[Ancalagon]

It's so sad when players feel characters need to be absolutely optimised. They miss out on so much.

I have in the past, and will in the future, play non fully optimized characters. I've made a melee shield and board gnome ranger. Rogue thieves with high strength, sailor background and magical adept. A religious mystic who happens to be a barbarian. Etc etc.

What is bothering me is that the class doesn't deliver what it's supposed to be. The hexblade is supposed to be a melee combatant - it says so in the name! Imagine if the arcane archer was much better in melee than with their bow.

The hexblade is great for optimizers... as a dip to make a hexapaladin, or perhaps a sorlock. I wish it delivered what it what supposed to be, without multiclassing or using cheese tactics. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What is bothering me is that the class doesn't deliver what it's supposed to be. The hexblade is supposed to be a melee combatant - it says so in the name!

And it does that. The fact that you could build a character that does it better is irrelevant. The fact that it is also good at doing something else is irreverent. Make a hexblade and fight in melee. You will have fun and you will not die.

Imagine if the arcane archer was much better in melee than with their bow.

The Arcane Archer is much better if it is a Battlemaster, so not a very good example...

 

[NotAYakk]

My current Warlock patch is pretty simple.

Along side buffs for the other pact tools:

Pact of the Blade: [...] In addition, while wielding your pact weapon, you can channel spells through your weapon. When would make a ranged spell attack you can instead make a melee spell attack using your pact weapon's reach. If you do so, you add 1/2 of your strength modifier (round up) to the damage if you hit; if your pact weapon is a finesse weapon, you can instead add 1/2 of your dexterity modifier (round up).

At level 5 your half elven blade pact warlock with agonizing blast using a pact short sword can have 16 dex 18 cha and make a melee range agonizing blast for 1d10+6 x2 at +7 to hit. This scales with extra blasts.

Adding a secondary stat/2 (round up) bonus gives you a slight edge over doing this at range.

The fact it is a melee spell attack blocks certain kinds of existing synergy, like GWM/Sneak Attack/Smite. And I'm ok with that; hexblade dips are already good enough.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The Hexblade subclass sells its self as paladin melee damage gish, but it doesn't have the magic, damage, or defense at the same time that a paladin or artificer does. If your building a character thinking your going to hold the line for your party and thats what you and they expect, then you show up and your the first to die... its sad when your whole party is disappointed in you... not fun.

Doesn't have the magic?
The Hexblade is a Warlock: a full 9th-level caster.
It might have too much magic to be regarded as a "proper gish" but I don't get how it "doesn't have the magic" compared to half-casters unless your DM is running seriously messed-up adventuring days.

 

[yakuba]

The Hexblade subclass sells its self as paladin melee damage gish, but it doesn't have the magic, damage, or defense at the same time that a paladin or artificer does. If your building a character thinking your going to hold the line for your party and thats what you and they expect, then you show up and your the first to die... its sad when your whole party is disappointed in you... not fun

I wouldn't say the Hexblade 'sells itself' in this way anymore than any of the other 'fightery' caster subclasses like War priest or College of Swords. These subclasses don't have the damage output and/or defenses of the Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian classes. And just as in those other subclasses you can choose to burn all your other class resources in a (probably) futile attempt to get to that level of offense or defense

I think it's fine as the fightery warlock subclass which there was a real clamor for. I don't see a real argument that it is significantly less capable than other similar caster subclasses.

The real missed opportunity was to not also make a warlock subclass of the paladin, with warlock feeling Oath features and spells pulled from the warlock list. That would, without needing any particularly brilliant design decisions, give a fully capable, warlock feeling combatant for those people who want that.