Single melee weapon ranger

To be honest, I'm a bit tired of the two-weapon ranger cliche and I'm much more drawn to being a single melee weapon ranger - either a fullblade, great sword, or bastard sword (I've even dabbled with the idea of being a ranger-avenger hybrid with a greatbow and fullblade; hmm...). But I'm wondering, can I build a 70/30 ranged/melee ranger with a single weapon and still be as effective? Obviously I lose the effectiveness of Twin Strike with the melee weapon, but I also could swap Two-Blade for Hunter Fighting Style. I could even wield a greatsword and spend that feat elsewhere.

+3 Hungry Greatspear (possibly through Eladrin Weapon Training), and Polearm Gamble. Oh, and whatever the dex based melee power that can be used as an opportunity attack is. Failing that, a Farbond Spellblade Fullblade and the same dex based power. But throwing Polearm Gamble into the mix is fun.

Dump strength and just go for one dex based melee power and finishing cut (4W against bloodied or prone targets) as your seventh level encounter power. Your other two encounters - I'd recommend Disruptive Strike and Fox's Cunning (both ranged powers) for that 70-30 mix.

Edit: If you want to stick to the bow as ranged, you still want hunter style and the encounters I recommended. You get to swap weapons fast - and finishing cut sounds like exactly the sort of power you want.
 

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My advice is not to get too hung up on what class name your character has on the tin either. Sadly for effective archery you really do pretty much have to go with ranger. About the only other option there would be hybrid fighter for the melee stuff with warlord, but you won't be super strikery.

Prolly the avenger hybrid idea is about the best.
 

Cue people going bonkers about how this is an abuse of the rules, but:

Simply wield a fullblade (or maul, or whatever) and an unarmed strike.

All but one or two of the ranger two-weapon attack powers specify that the damage done is main-hand or off-hand, so there's not really much of a balance issue caused by wielding a weapon that is +3 prof and deals 1d12 and a weapon that's +0 prof and deals 1d4 compared with a pair of 1d10 weapons.
 

Cue people going bonkers about how this is an abuse of the rules, but:

Simply wield a fullblade (or maul, or whatever) and an unarmed strike.

All but one or two of the ranger two-weapon attack powers specify that the damage done is main-hand or off-hand, so there's not really much of a balance issue caused by wielding a weapon that is +3 prof and deals 1d12 and a weapon that's +0 prof and deals 1d4 compared with a pair of 1d10 weapons.

Yeah, that's a good point. The problem is enchantment. Unless you're also a monk or a vampire you can't put enhancement on your fist can you? Spiked Gauntlet? There were always a few arguments about that, but I guess it works.

Anyway, this is also what double weapons are made for, you're high dex and can use a double weapon, axe plus spear ;). Get RoB too, it is still a pretty good power to use with an Urgrosh. Actually that seems like the best option. Take Master at Arms and you are all set. You can use the archer build too, which opens you up to go full on bow guy later if you want, etc.
 

My personal solution to that issue is to use inherent bonuses. Failing that, and having a player who wishes to make this type of ranger, I'd take a note from interwyrm and just call it a pommel blow, using the full enchantment of the weapon being used but still the basic stat line of an unarmed strike.
 

Doing this type of build is really not that hard and you already have some good ideas. I've thought about it quite a bit myself. One thing to remember : You can refluff anything you want. Want to imagine that double-sword is a wierd longsword? Go ahead. Want to imagine that double-ax is just a normal battle axe that you can twin strike with? Go ahead. Statistically it's the same thing, and makes no real difference either in cost or game mechanics. If you really want that d10 +3 bastard sword, then yeah, a paired weapon is the way to go. Stick an 18 post-racials in your dex, 16 in str (unless you are a half orc, in which case go balanced). Pick up bastard sword prof and select twf style with a paired weapon, as you say, and just "pretend" like it's always in un-paired mode. With Master of Arms for swapping around with your bow it's functionally identical. For your hide armor, maybe even take battle harness if you run out of actions and don't want to take quick draw.

Or you can do the double weapon thing, which ironically works way better in pathfinder as there is no proficiency bonus and the main thing distinguishing a double sword and an orc double ax is the crit rate. For myself, to be the ultimate switch hitter ranger archetype with a bastard sword and a bow, go with tons of non-standard and out of turn attacks so you can maximize your use of Twin Strike : half-elf, dilletante twin strike, versatile mastery (has this been nerfed recently? I read a rumour...), 20 cha at level 1, combat virtuoso so can you use cha for both melee AND ranged twin strike.

Although your damage will go down from a pure ranger, the party DPR will go way up (more so than the loss of your own DPR, probably), you can still swap for a few of the key ranger powers.

If you don't like half-elf visually, pretend you are 9/10ths human and a distant ancestor was an elf. Nothing says you HAVE to have pointy ears.

The main class for this build is hybrid bard + warlord, of course. Take disciple of the divine wrath and Favored Soul PP and you are a flying + dicing machine that the party will love you for. Hitting twice per round is really where it's at. Add on some debuffs to your twin strike with stuff like psychic lock and a mindiron bow, defending dabbler, and impending doom style to give up to a -6 at-will debuff on an enemy's attacks (usually -4). The other good thing you can do with this type of character is wield a harmony blade longsword or a rhythm blade rapier in your main hand and twin strike with the light fighting shield in your offhand. It's d8, d8, but saves you a feat on double sword and gives better AC (the rapier version). I like both, personally. With Master of Arms, it's good to carry a few different types of weapons depending on the situation. You can pop your shield into some gloves of storing when out of melee range and want to use your bow. Good thing about flying around is that you have better tactical options to pick when to engage in melee or lower your defenses a tiny bit to shower some pain from above. Or take War Chanter which is awesome too. (in which case I'd go heavy armor since you'd start out with chain prof anyway)

I really like the 2handed ranger archetype as well, but the trick in 4e, if you want a pure ranger, is to put an 18 in whichever you like most, and a 16 in the other. It's only a +1 difference, although the dex version has better AC and reflex, while the str version does more damage in melee, no question. With divine wrath you will more than make up for having a 16 starting str. I would go wih half-orc but I hate that race with a passion, except in Pathfinder as a precursor to a dragon disciple (similar to a dragonborn visually in a lot of ways)
 
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Thanks for all that RLBURNSIDE. I'm still struggling to understand the damage potential difference between wielding two bastard swords (paired) and one fullblade. Obviously the bastard sword works better for Twin Strike but looking over my character sheet, that's the only power that is effected - all other powers (that my character currently has) are either specific to ranged or single weapon attacks.

So if wielding a fullblade and I switched from ranged to melee, I wouldn't use Twin Strike for an at-will, but Fading Strike. So the difference would be:

Fading Strike (Fullblade +3): d12+11 = 12-23 HP on one hit
Twin Strike (Paired Bastard Sword +3): d10+5 (x2) = 12-30 HP on two hits

Obviously Twin Strike is better, but not by as much as I thought. Furthermore, what the Fullblade adds is much greater crit potential - a full extra 2d12; if I couple that with Melegaunt's Darkblade +3 there is a 10% of getting crit on every attack, so I get the following crit potential:

Fading Strike (Melegaunt's Darkblade, fullblade +3): 10%, Crit - 12+11 = 23 + 2d12 + 3d6 = 28-65.
Twin Strike (paired bastard sword +3): 5% twice, Crit - d10+5 = 15+ 3d6 = 18-33 per crit.

So it isn't as clear as to which is better. I really like the high crit potential of the Fullblade, especially when coupled with Melegaunt's Darkblade (although we are refluffing it to fit my Sehanine-worshipping elf ranger - a "Valsharan Moonblade" that actually combines elements of Melegaunt's and the vicious blade, but is a level higher).

Or am I missing something?
 

Thanks for all that RLBURNSIDE. I'm still struggling to understand the damage potential difference between wielding two bastard swords (paired) and one fullblade. Obviously the bastard sword works better for Twin Strike but looking over my character sheet, that's the only power that is effected - all other powers (that my character currently has) are either specific to ranged or single weapon attacks.

So if wielding a fullblade and I switched from ranged to melee, I wouldn't use Twin Strike for an at-will, but Fading Strike. So the difference would be:

Fading Strike (Fullblade +3): d12+11 = 12-23 HP on one hit
Twin Strike (Paired Bastard Sword +3): d10+5 (x2) = 12-30 HP on two hits

Obviously Twin Strike is better, but not by as much as I thought. Furthermore, what the Fullblade adds is much greater crit potential - a full extra 2d12; if I couple that with Melegaunt's Darkblade +3 there is a 10% of getting crit on every attack, so I get the following crit potential:

Fading Strike (Melegaunt's Darkblade, fullblade +3): 10%, Crit - 12+11 = 23 + 2d12 + 3d6 = 28-65.
Twin Strike (paired bastard sword +3): 5% twice, Crit - d10+5 = 15+ 3d6 = 18-33 per crit.

So it isn't as clear as to which is better. I really like the high crit potential of the Fullblade, especially when coupled with Melegaunt's Darkblade (although we are refluffing it to fit my Sehanine-worshipping elf ranger - a "Valsharan Moonblade" that actually combines elements of Melegaunt's and the vicious blade, but is a level higher).

Or am I missing something?

Well, TS and other multi-attacks WILL far outstrip other powers as you level up. The issue is that with TS you're getting every single static damage boost twice. Take Weapon Focus, you get the +2 damage x2 with TS, etc. So with a total +5 static damage bonus the difference is not that great, but when the damage bonus is higher it will be quite significant. In fact your example isn't super realistic. d10+5 would be pathetic at the levels you'd have a +3 weapon. For instance Prime Punisher + Called Shot by itself is another +5 damage per hit. Assuming you have those 2 feats, Weapon Focus, and a +3 weapon your bastard swords are d10+10 for all attacks.

OTOH this is all not to say that the single big weapon version will be anything like ineffective. You'll still have all the minor action attacks and immediate attacks, plus your OA will be more effective, so that does help. In any case if you spend 70% of your time using a bow there's not going to be a huge number of situations where it will be a big deal. Still, grab Urgrosh, multi into fighter, pick up Rain of Blows, still a decent way to optimize and if you find the axe to be a fitting weapon then you have the best of all worlds.
 

Thanks for all that RLBURNSIDE. I'm still struggling to understand the damage potential difference between wielding two bastard swords (paired) and one fullblade. Obviously the bastard sword works better for Twin Strike but looking over my character sheet, that's the only power that is effected - all other powers (that my character currently has) are either specific to ranged or single weapon attacks.

So if wielding a fullblade and I switched from ranged to melee, I wouldn't use Twin Strike for an at-will, but Fading Strike. So the difference would be:

Fading Strike (Fullblade +3): d12+11 = 12-23 HP on one hit
Twin Strike (Paired Bastard Sword +3): d10+5 (x2) = 12-30 HP on two hits

The damage difference is that you've got minimal statics - a +2 weapon and weapon focus, no? It's the impact of your static bonusses to damage that is doubled.

Throw in a pair of bracers (+2 to all melee attacks - although you want the archery ones instead) and gauntlets of blood (+2 damage vs bloodied foes - if you can buy them, do) and:

Fading Strike (Fullblade +3) vs bloodied foe: d12 + 15 = 16-27 HP damage vs bloodied
Twin Strike (Paired Bastard Sword): d10+9 (x2) = 20-28 damage vs bloodied.

Then add in Prime Punisher and whatever the feat is that allows you +5 damage vs your prime shot target for:
Fading Strike: d12+20 = 21-32 (vs bloodied and prime target)
Twin Strike: d10+14 x2 = 30-48 (vs bloodied and prime target)

The big weapon version is a solid backup weapon but not as good as ranger-fu can get. And remember you actually want the archery bracers - although gauntlets of blood and the +5 damage vs prime shot target are both good.
 

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