Six hour combats

[Ant]

I await your post, eagerly.

Here's how I run my 3.5 combats -- they're quick and a lot of fun, even as the party are approaching higher levels. A lot of the following tips have been gleaned from ENWorld, Treasure Tables, RPG.net, the DMG and a myriad of 3rd party products.

Prep for the DM:
- Gather the important monster stats together in one place. I like visual cues so I draw a little shield for each monster. In the shield I note AC and AC-related things. I then draw an arrow pointing into the shield, indicating incoming attacks. On this arrow I note in order any special defences. Next I draw an arrow pointing away from the shield, indicating outgoing attacks. On this arrow I note an special attack options. (Note that I also do the same for the PCs so I have an idea of what their offence/defence is)
- If the monster has a few key spells/slas I make a brief one-liner detailing the spell/sla.
- After taking a gander at the monsters spells, feats etc I then write down some quick tactics (remembering that most monsters don't last more than 4 or 5 rounds).
- Make combats interesting -- pick a few combat options for some monsters to spice things up. Add some interesting terrain. Throw in something weird but potentially useful in the heat of battle.

During combat (DMs):
- Use initiative cards!
- Group monsters together and roll initiative for each group
- Use a staggered attack roll (+/-1 for weak monsters, +/-2 for tougher ones) for lots of monsters eg 5 kobolds are attacking (with a BAB of +1). I roll a 12 for a total of 13 after adding the BAB. The kobolds final attack rolls are 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15.
- Keep it moving. PC has iterative attacks? If possible don't wait for them to finish rolling -- move on and get them to give you total damage when they're done. Player unsure of what to do? Just move to the next player and let the other chime in when ready ... if he's too slow then the next players' action happened first.
- I like the "Players Roll All The Dice" option (just the defense roll) from Unearthed Arcana -- keeps players more involved in combat esp. when there are a lot of monsters
- Keep summoned monster/nature's ally stat cards handy
- Give mooks all the same weapons, armour, hp and abilities
- Make sure mooks go down in no more than 2-3 hits
- +2/-2 modifier is your friend. Avoid too much book-referencing! I've pinned handy and oft-used combat-related stuff onto my DM screens for quick and easy reference.
- Keep it interesting. Throw in a fumble or a collapsing pillar or an amusing foe (comedically suicidal goblins are good for this).
- If you make a mistake (that isn't fatal to a player) just roll with it and keep moving. If you're good no-one will even notice.
- Use post-it notes/status/buff cards. Very handy. If a player has suffered ability damage then just note the penalty to his bonus and simply apply that penalty where appropriate (do NOT make the poor player recalculate everything then and there!)
- Watch the time (but don't let the players see you look at the clock). I keep my mobile phone (or "cell", if you prefer) behind my DM screen so I can keep track of time.
- Don't sweat the small stuff

During combat (players):
- Start thinking about your actions before your turn - esp. spellcasters! (this one is a bit harder and I could do better at encouraging the players to do this).
- Roll damage dice and to-hit dice at the same time
- Roll miss chance first

I'm sure I've missed one or two things but that's the bulk of it. Nothing too hard and my 3.5e combats run just as fast if not faster than the 4e combats I've enjoyed.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

…I…I got a headache…

Hah, just from reading? Try running SR3 with 6+ players! Then you'll get a headache. (And if from actual experience: Welcome in the Club). Like another Shadowrun GM in my group once exclaimed toward another player*: "What, you want a target number, too?!" ;( Well, at least the target numbers are gone in 4E. Finally, you only need to roll buckets of dice...

Spoiler

*) Actually, this didn't happen in a game, IIRC. But the GM in question described this scene to express his feelings about GMing.

 

[hazel monday]

Out of curiosity, what levels do you play? I'm wondering if that's a factor.

My campaigns usually run from 1st level to 14th. After that the game starts being unworkable.
I think the biggest factors in in the length of our fights is familiarity with the rules. I don't need to open any rulebooks once the fights start. Also my players who cast spells have gotten into the wonderful habit of looking up the spells they intend to cast before their turn.
At low levels, fights take about 5 minutes each. At levels 12-14 they start getting longer and longer, clocking in at about 15-20 minutes each.
Still a far cry from 6hours though.I'm wondering why a D&D fight would take that long for you. Is there a lot of rules checking during fights for your group? Is there a lot of hemming and hawing from your players when their turn comes up? At high levels, the sheer amount of options can make choosing a course of action difficult for some players.

 

[S'mon]

If a player doesn't know what their PC is doing when their turn comes up, I always say: "OK, you Delay. Let me know when you want to act."

 

[Ulrick]

To be honest Ulrick, I don't mind if the combat takes 5 hours, I just want there to be more than 5 rounds in 5 hours. That seems to be the biggest advantage of 4e so far. The fights will last just as long, but, you'll be doing something more often.

Good point. It just shouldn't take 5 hours to resolve something that's happens in about a minute. But that's what happened in my game.

I'm looking forward to seeing how high level combats with numerous opponents work in 4e. Minions!

 

[sjmiller]

Two to three hour combats are almost common.

Does anyone else have this issue? Is this something endemic to 3e or is it a play-style issue?

I am willing to say that it is a play style issue. I run a party of nine players for game sessions that run from noon to 6pm with a half hour to an hour dinner break. During a typical game session we can see as many as four really good combats take place. This is interlaced with periods of roleplay where no combat is done. If I were to cram as many combats as I wanted into a session, I think we could easily do five or six.

We do a number of things to speed combat along. I think at the very least making sure everyone knows when their turn is and is prepared to act when it comes up makes the combats go a lot faster.

 

[Jhaelen]

Hmm, it seems my post from yesterday got lost when ENWorld timed out on me (again). So here's the short version again:

I've had a single fight so far that took about 6 hours. It was 8 pcs against an npc party plus 30+ minions that was the climax of an adventure. So, I was mostly okay with that.

However, since the average party level became 11-12 we've had several standard encounters that took 3-4 hours each. Once it was even a fight against a single enemy!

If that trend continues, I can foresee it'll suck the fun out of the game long before the intended conclusion of my campaign (which is still 3+ adventures away).

I'm extremely surprised that combats are so fast for some. I can't remember any combat last significantly less than 1 hour even at the lower levels.
That's mostly a problem because most of my players still don't have a good grasp of the rules (although we've been playing for over 3 years about once a month).
It's also common to engage in a discussion of tactics pretty much every time before a player takes her actions.
On top of that there's the badly prepared spellcasters that have to look up spells and summoned monsters once they've decided what they want to cast/summon.

 

[Mercule]

I am willing to say that it is a play style issue.

It may very well be. None of the casters (even the spontaneous ones with limited pools) know their spells well and often wait for their turn to select a spell, then look it up (often misreading it -- as frequently to their detriment as their benefit). Special attacks (attack defensive, precise shot, etc.) are also not bookmarked or noted, when needed.

I think I said this, above, but the battle in question was the climax of the module and there is no more fighting. After the looting is done and the group heads back to town, we're temporarily rotating DMs (with different characters). Maybe I'll see something from the other side of the screen or could make some suggestions without sounding like a Nazi DM. If nothing else, it sounds like I'll be the only person playing a caster.