Skill Challenge Overkill (mearls stuff)

[Mournblade94]

A defined conflict. A start and end point. XP rewards.

How many Diplomacy or Bluff checks do I need to make before the Mayor is convinced to give us the key to the sewers? Will he even do it at all? Do we even need to make a roll? When we succeed, are we rewarded for our effforts in mechanical terms? When we fail, what will be the fallout?

Skill Challenges help answer all those questions.

Skill challenges is the one thing I liked about 4th edition.

Generally the skill of players in clever speech or actions can reduce the amount of rolls needed.

 

[Kraydak]

There are several things about skill challenges I find odd. Amongst them:

a) the section (IIRC, not near my books, I'm prepared to be very embarrassed here) does not have advice for handling the issue of ultimatums. Ultimatums are a not-uncommon negotiating tactic that mesh extraordinarily poorly with the skill challenge system, and you would expect that situation to come up often enough to warrant specific advice.

b) many comments about running skill challenges from designers/skill challenge fans, such as:

...
Generally the skill of players in clever speech or actions can reduce the amount of rolls needed.

or Mearls' comments in the podcast come with a large dose of "... and then ignore the skill challenge rules". If you play fast and loose with the success/failure numbers, you have stopped doing anything different than DMs have for time immemorial.

 

[Negflar2099]

I don't see how the existence of the articles affects skill challenges one way or the other. He's only offering advice after all. It's not like he's forcing you to do skill challenges his way. If you don't like then ignore the article. Personally I find his advice to be very helpful.

 

[jbear]

Skill challenges are nothing new to D&D. I was using them all through 3.5. It is just being touted now as a new shiny for the newest incarnation.

????... Are you suggesting you invented skill challenges and ... they STOLE it from you????

Anyway, I am also really enjoying skill challenges. Brilliant tool to invent ways PC's can be victorious either ending a combat sooner or avoid it all together... and be rewarded for it. That's not to mention making travel over large distances fun, interesting relatively fast. Just to name a few possibilities they open up.

The links in the Enworld news page about how to run skill challenges have been a massive eye opener, especially the one about the pink dice/purple dice. I'm not really sure it can be run any better or put any better than the person resposable for that blog does.

Everyone that is having troubles with skill challenges, or is enjoying them and wants to do them even better should check out this link. The one I specifically recommend is "How to Make a Skill Challenge Fun pt. 1, 2, 3: Skill Challenges | Critical Hits

 

[Scribble]

a) the section (IIRC, not near my books, I'm prepared to be very embarrassed here) does not have advice for handling the issue of ultimatums. Ultimatums are a not-uncommon negotiating tactic that mesh extraordinarily poorly with the skill challenge system, and you would expect that situation to come up often enough to warrant specific advice

What exactly do you mean by ultimatums?

 

[mlund]

Skill challenges don't really require more prep than any other form of non-combat, non-trap interaction for the PCs. You need to be able to make the environment around them react to their choices - and they can make a ton of different choices.

Yes, if you want the Skill Challenge to be on rails you're going to need an exhaustive list of what works, how well, and at what DCs - as well as what won't work and what the consequences are. Then you have to herd your players into a specific sandbox and keep them there until the challenge is complete.

I prefer having a half-dozen sample skill checks, a note of the one or two things that categorically fail, and otherwise have a good awareness of the environment the PCs are in. If they'd rather try to intimidate the maid servants of the princess (which I previously didn't introduce, but "Every princess has servants, DM!" is a compelling argument indeed) instead of using Insight, they'll still find out that she's pining away for a dashing young gambler she can never marry - and thus advance the challenge.

Skill Challenges need either a lot of scripting or good skill with improvisation. I try to use a moderate amount of both so I don't bury myself in prep or run afoul of a creative block trying too much improv.

- Marty Lund

 

[Reynard]

What exactly do you mean by ultimatums?

Yes. Tell us now, or else...

 

[Scribble]

Yes. Tell us now, or else...

Well that's kind of it. I mean isn't that basically part of what the intimidate skill does?

Otherwise you end up just listing it as either

A stopping point- (IE if said demand is not met, despite however many other DCs are passed the negotiations fail. )

Or just assume that they're part of whats happening in the skill challange to begin with (IE here are our demands, here are our counters etc...)

Don't you?

 

[Ktulu]

The links in the Enworld news page about how to run skill challenges have been a massive eye opener, especially the one about the pink dice/purple dice. I'm not really sure it can be run any better or put any better than the person resposable for that blog does.

Critical Hits[/url]

Do you have a link to this one? I couldn't locate it.

 

[Felon]

The original promise of the system was that if the players do something skilly and potentially involved that you don't really expect, now you have something to fall back on.

Lord knows skill challenges have problems, but there are few things more irritating than people who matter-of-factly state what the original intention of something was when in fact their assertion is pulled out of thin air.

Let's get the record straight: skill challenges were not intended to resolve silly actions on the fly. They were not intended to be uninvolved or accidental. From the get-go, the DMG says that skill challenges should receive the level of planning and attention that combat encounters should.