Skill checks

[Elf Witch]

I have a few questions about skill checks. I am looking for the RAW rules on them.

First what is the raw rule on rolling a natural 20 on a skill check? Does it give you anything special? I have played in groups that say a natura; 20 is the same as a 30. Is this trie. From what I am reading there does not seem to be a rule like that.

Successful DC checks. In the players handbook it says on survial that it is a DC 20 to track on a hard surface. Does this mean ( by the RAW) that if the players rolls a 20 or higher that they find some way to track? Or is this totally up to the DM to say nope there is no way you could track in this dungeon because there is no dust?

I am also trying to get a handle on spot vs search checks. I look at it as spotbeing usually more passive its not such an active skill as search. For example you are walking through a room not actively looking for a secret door but you spot one. Where as if you are walking through a room looking for a secret passage so you use search which is a more active skill. Am I right on this?

I am getting ready to run my first 3.5 game and I am just trying to get a handle on things.

 

[frankthedm]

First what is the raw rule on rolling a natural 20 on a skill check? Does it give you anything special? I have played in groups that say a natura; 20 is the same as a 30. Is this trie. From what I am reading there does not seem to be a rule like that.

Most skills do not have auto success or auto failure. 20's and one's counting as If 10 points higher / lower is a very popular houserule on skill checks. I am a huge advocate of Natural 20 = good, Natural 1 = bad, but when using houserules of that nature, you may need to reduce how often one can 'take 20'.

In the players handbook it says on survial that it is a DC 20 to track on a hard surface. Does this mean ( by the RAW) that if the players rolls a 20 or higher that they find some way to track? Or is this totally up to the DM to say nope there is no way you could track in this dungeon because there is no dust?

Remember without the feat, you only find the tracks, but can not follow them.

With enough circumstance modifiers you could negate tracking, but multiple paths from the same creature can easy add on some circumstance modifiers. And sometimes they can get high enough to where saying no to tracking is appropriate, like when a dungeon has a janitor of some type...

"The stone floor is clean, too clean in fact, you suspect some type of animate slime frequents the area, roll me a knowlege dungeonering check."

And sometimes a set of tracks won't go away. While the rules don't specify it, the clawprints of a huge creature's talons dig into stone won't 'fade away' from the dungeon's floor.

Remember someone covering thier tracks can move at half speed to add 5 to the DC to track them. Unless the treck through the dungeon is a long one, that permits them to use hustle and possibly run options.

For example you are walking through a room not actively looking for a secret door but you spot one. Where as if you are walking through a room looking for a secret passage so you use search which is a more active skill. Am I right on this?

You never use the spot skill to find a secret door. Spot is used to notice creatures trying to sneak up on you and is used in many many combats and thus skill points placed in that skill are always useful. Search is used to find objects, notably treasure and thus skill points placed in that skill are always useful unless the DM runs a kid glove game where all the treasure is sitting out in the open.

All non invisable objects that could be spotted are spotted. Hidden doors have to be searched for. The difference on these skills is a balancing factor of the ruleset. Most character will not have enough skill points for both. Those that do have to pay the skill points through the nose to get all the 'perception' skills.

Secret Doors
Disguised as a bare patch of wall (or floor, or ceiling), a bookcase, a fireplace, or a fountain, a secret door leads to a secret passage or room. Someone examining the area finds a secret door, if one exists, on a successful Search check (DC 20 for a typical secret door to DC 30 for a well-hidden secret door). Elves have a chance to detect a secret door just by casually looking at an area.

Many secret doors require a special method of opening, such as a hidden button or pressure plate. Secret doors can open like normal doors, or they may pivot, slide, sink, rise, or even lower like a drawbridge to permit access. Builders might put a secret door down low near the floor or high up in a wall, making it difficult to find or reach. Wizards and sorcerers have a spell, phase door, that allows them to create a magic secret door that only they can use.

 

[Elf Witch]

Most skills do not have auto success or auto failure. 20's and one's counting as If 10 points higher / lower is a very popular houserule on skill checks. I am a huge advocate of Natural 20 = good, Natural 1 = bad, but when using houserules of that nature, you may need to reduce how often one can 'take 20'. Remember without the feat, you only find the tracks, but can not follow them.

With enough circumstance modifiers you could negate tracking, but multiple paths from the same creature can easy add on some circumstance modifiers. And sometimes they can get high enough to where saying no to tracking is apropriate, like when a dungeon has a janitor of some type...

"The stone floor is clean, too clean in fact, you suspect some type of slime frequents the area, roll me a knowlege dungeonering check."

Sometimes a set of tracks won't go away. While the rules don't specify it, the clawprints of a huge creature's talons dig into stone won't 'fade away' from the dungeon's floor.

You never use the spot skill to find a secret door. Spot is used to notice creatures trying to sneak up on you and is used in many many combats and thus skill points placed in that skill are always useful. Search is used to find objects, notably treasure and thus skill points placed in that skill are always useful unless the DM runs a kid glove game where all the treasure is sitting out in the open.

All non invisable objects that could be spotted are spotted. Hidden doors have to be searched for. The difference on these skills is a balancing factor of the ruleset. Most character will not have enough skill points for both. Those that do have to pay the skill points through the nose to get all the 'perception' skills.

Secret Doors
Disguised as a bare patch of wall (or floor, or ceiling), a bookcase, a fireplace, or a fountain, a secret door leads to a secret passage or room. Someone examining the area finds a secret door, if one exists, on a successful Search check (DC 20 for a typical secret door to DC 30 for a well-hidden secret door). Elves have a chance to detect a secret door just by casually looking at an area.

Many secret doors require a special method of opening, such as a hidden button or pressure plate. Secret doors can open like normal doors, or they may pivot, slide, sink, rise, or even lower like a drawbridge to permit access. Builders might put a secret door down low near the floor or high up in a wall, making it difficult to find or reach. Wizards and sorcerers have a spell, phase door, that allows them to create a magic secret door that only they can use.

Thanks this is helping a lot. I know you need the track feat to be able to follow the tracks.

Spot and search are giving me a slight headache. They seems to be the most misunderstood skill checks in the game. I have been playing 3.0 and 3.5 since they came out and I have seen so many variations on how DMs use these skills that I am confused on them.