Skill increasing feats worth it?

[Zhure]

I like them for Fighters, who can best afford the feat "loss" by investing in a non-combat feat.

They're also good for characters who want to be the best at a specific skill, or for characters who want to be competetive in a cross-class skill but don't want to multiclass.
Greg

 

[Keith]

You guys are COMPLETELY ignoring a HUGE group of characters that really need those feats.

NPC's.

The shopkeeper, the blacksmith, the prime minister... they just don't need combat or spellcasting feats.

I, as an author and DM, applaud the inclusion of the skill-boosting feats in 3.5.

Point taken, certainly. Although, do they need improved hide and move silently, either?

To digress slightly, I don’t think the PC system works in general for NPCs, really. How DO those people gather XP?! If they can do it being a blacksmith, why can’t a PC? I always think that everyone else should be left out of the PC char. gen. system, feats included.
I think the skill and feat system, and especially the XP system, are ineffective in modeling the world as a whole.

I agree that the multi-skill feats will suit some campaigns, and characters, more than others. I applaud their inclusion, as well, because, simply, they do no harm, and provide options.

 

[billd91]

To digress slightly, I don’t think the PC system works in general for NPCs, really. How DO those people gather XP?! If they can do it being a blacksmith, why can’t a PC? I always think that everyone else should be left out of the PC char. gen. system, feats included.

Oh, I like having NPCs be part of the char gen system. And why not have PCs gain XPs by working in their profession? You don't think they'd get better at it over time? Sure they would.
The question here is HOW MANY XPs should they get? On a day to day basis, there's no real way that working in a stable job is going to net the same kinds of XPs as going out and adventuring. If it did, who would go and live that kind of risky life?
I generally assume that any NPC is likely to have an NPC level for every 3-5 years of working in the profession after coming of age. It would indicate that, yes, they are gaining experience, but they aren't gaining it at a very fast rate.

 

[billd91]

Point taken, certainly. Although, do they need improved hide and move silently, either?

Oh, yes. I think there's even a good argument for this too. Some might indeed. Think of the local huntsman. He might have to go out and hunt some deer, needing hide and move silently, but isn't sufficiently trained in any PC character class to count as one. He's probably an Expert NPC class with a need for those two skills to be effective in his job.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

I generally assume that any NPC is likely to have an NPC level for every 3-5 years of working in the profession after coming of age. It would indicate that, yes, they are gaining experience, but they aren't gaining it at a very fast rate.

I was gonna say 4-6 years, but yeah, I agree. Of course, to a certain extent, you also have to apply discretion about how this XP can be applied. You wouldn't want to say that Bill the level 1 Expert has been applying the XP he gets for working as a gem appraiser towards Barbarian class levels, so that, by the time he's 40 years old, he's Bill the Expert 1/Barbarian 6, without ever having been in a fight.

 

[Nifft]

Since stealth is an opposed check or two, those Feats actually make some sense. Your target for those rolls aren't static DCs, they're living nasties who are getting more ranks with every rise in CR.

Likewise for Alertness et al., and especially so if you max out Spot and Listen.

-- N

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Cosmopolitan isn't a skill increasing feat, per-se, it's primarily a crossclassing feat. The +2 bonus is simply icing on the cake: You'd take it even without that.

At mid-levels, yes. The feat is not worthwhile to 1st or 2nd level characters without the bonus.

The fun part about the bonus is, if you pick the right skill, you can have a skill that is better than an expected expert. Frex, an elven cleric with Cosmopolitan Spot is likely to exceed the spotting ability of all but the most supermaximized Rogue or Ranger. To have an exceptional skill against stereotype can be a nice tactical advantage (with a fairminded DM).

 

[Norfleet]

At mid-levels, yes. The feat is not worthwhile to 1st or 2nd level characters without the bonus.

If you wait until mid-levels to take it, then your skillpoints will already have been committed and you won't have any skillpoints to be plowing into this skill anyway. Since you'd only do a crossclass skill thing if you were genuinely SERIOUS about the skill, you're effectively expected to take it at first level, because if you don't, I really don't know where the hell you're hiding those skillpoints, since you certainly aren't allowed to simply "save" them. Thus, I'd almost expect this to be a first-level-or-bust feat.