Skills over the top

[Negative Zero]

*climbs up on the pulit with PHB and DMG under his arm*
*clears his throat* ahem
brothers and sisters, todays sermon coms from the good book. turn to chapter 4: Skills, page 70. and lo, the prophets Monte and Skip and John did speak, and say "it is good for players to try to imtimadte-AH. but only if they be pretty boy pansy bards or sorcerors. NOT if they be grungy, gritty, tough-as-nails FIGHTERS-AH!!!

LOL
thanks kamosa, for the encouragement. but i'll stick to pissing off my DM lol

~NegZ

 

[Schmoe]

... for the most part everyone else is just Joe Schmoe...

There can be only one...

 

[Negative Zero]

oh, did i say Joe? i meant to say Mo. MO Schmoe! some relation perhaps?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hmm. I remember the signature of the member of the German Shadowrun Forum hostet by FanPro... Translated, it means somewhat like: "No adventure survives contact with players".
The hardest thing for a DM is that you NEVER know what crazy or intelligent ideas your players might come.
Sometimes, the group totally fails to see the easiest clue (like in our Wheel of Time Campaign , sometimes they see the big, great mistake you made in the adventure, sometimes they just use a way you absolutely did not except.
(And sometimes, they are just not interested in your adventure and hijack it at any time they can...)

There is only one thing that can really rescue a DM here - and that`s why it is so difficult to be the "Master" - improvisation.
(I know it is hard. I have my own problems with it. But it might help if you can except that your players can make other decisions as you expected them...)

Oh, and for the "extraplanar" thingy with Perform: Since it is mentioned together with "patrons of distant countries", we probably have several realworld actors that are able to beat the DCs. There are just not enough extraplanar creatures able to visit the Earth (or we just never saw them ).

Several musicians where invited by people like the pope, some arabian scheichs and so on to play just for them.
Movies can be watched nearly everywhere in our world - and they ARE watched.
The German TV Series "Derick" has been translated in dozens of languages and is showed even in Japan, China and similar countries. (And it means a lot if it is a German Series. American are more common)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Numion]

Again, the point about bards (possibly) attracting extraplanar creatures is moot, since a mid-level cleric can do it automatically. And the bards ability check doesn't state that the planar creature should act on it; it's probably invisible, just listening to the bards performance.

I'd also like to know why an automatic succes on a skill check is so big of a no-no to many GMs? If they're good at something, then they won't fail. That's the whole point of it.

 

[Vaxalon]

skills that govern roleplaying aspects of the game are, for the most part, a pretty new invention.

In DnD maybe. Other games have been doing it for years, and GM's of those games know how to deal with "one trick ponies".

You try to see to it that in order to get through the adventure, the PC's need to use many different skills and abilities. Combat is a given, usually, make sure to stick several others in. If someone is particularly good at one of those skills, then let them have fun with the easy roll. There will be others.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Salutations,

hey furn...read any vonnegut latetly?

Heh, I hate being so transparent- but found it an amusing absurd suggestion at the time.

let's not forget that this game is supposed to be the PC's story. not "How I Killed My Group This Time." ... but i digress. but before i quit while i'm behind, Furn_Darkside, how may time have your PCs fought dragons? do they really think that they can tumble by it with condifence?

*chuckle* No, but my players have learned that over confidence in high skills will get someone killed.

The first major death in our group was a monk, blind, trying to jump over a raging/flooiding sewer line. With the circumstance penalties he racked up- he failed, and the rest of the party was already preoccupied. The monk drowned.

Anyway- my players fear genies more then dragons. heh.

Of course you could always apply one of 'dem 'dare situational modifiers to the tumble roll. I would say tumbling by yawn dragon might be a +5 or so to the roll. Don't forget they be big as well so you might have to make the roll for each five foot square. Just a thought.

You are correct about circumstance bonuses AND penalties- I use them liberally and on most skill checks. Granted, I adjust the DC with them- and describe their existance and impact while describing the result of the skill check.

The original problem with Tumble was it was a straight check versus a set DC- which gave no regards to if the creature was an agile dragon or a slow giant. It is kind of silly to make my own adjustments each time depending on the dex of the creature- which does not take into account the chance of the creature being more or less successful.

So, the reflex save works.

To be honest, it is not perfect though.

Reflex saves are to avoid something- so perhaps a straight dex check would be better. I am not sure, but so far the reflex check vs. tumble has worked well for our group.

Perhaps, in my next campeign, I will use BAB + Dex bonus vs. tumble. *shrug*

Which means 25 percent of the time, they may get the attention of an extraplaner creature. Yes, I know this states "may" but isn't that a little extreme?

Well, lets break this down-

The extraplanar creature:
Do you run a campeign where you consider this possible?
If not, then ignore it.

If yes, then the dm needs to make some considerations-

What extraplanar powers in your campeign bother with a performance (good or otherwise)? How would the react? How might they react to the inconsistant performance level?

Personally, I would just ignore it- unless I wanted to use it to further/start a plot line.

That is all I am getting at. And with the halfling example, it even gets more obsence.

Nah, the halfling is able to sneak and hide. This is hardly an adventure breaker. If you want to make it more difficult, then consider the circumstances and adjust appropriately.

Also- be sure to read up on scent: DMG pg.81

People still keep dogs today to warn them of intruders- and neither Hide or Move Silently will help them out against this.

Do I make NPC's like that as well? Ie for a bard music contest? Just curious. I am not trying to get at my players, just curious.

You should make your npc's depending on their importance in your campeign. And you should consider how common these classes are in your world- are magic wielding bards common? uncommon? rare?

Should every performer be a bard? No.

Should the nemesis of the pc bard at the coming music competition be a bard? Heck- yes.

Should you min max the important npc's who have pc classes? Yes, to the same degree your players have. You build them with the same limitations as your players (such as, if your pc's are built with 32 points, then so are your important npc's).

They should have access to the same reasonable amount of magic items and contacts (though, keep in mind anything you give an npc.. the players may get their hands on).

And, as I suggested in another post, be sure to have the world react to the players and the commonality of their abilities.

Example: the halfling- are there many halflings with this ability in your world? Well, then the world would be sure to employ low level casters for Alarm spells and to have guard dogs to protect important areas. If not higher their own rogues to spot/listen for other rogues.

Always be sure to have your enemies, who escape, learn from the players

Sure, the halfling snuck up and ambushed the sorcerer once- but she escaped. And next time, the sorcerer will be sure to have alarm and faerie fire spells ready to deal with this troublesome little rogue.

Good luck!
FD

 

[LostSoul]

Should you min max the important npc's who have pc classes? Yes, to the same degree your players have. You build them with the same limitations as your players (such as, if your pc's are built with 32 points, then so are your important npc's).

Damn straight.