skills questions

[Buttercup]

1) how many ranks in craft black smithing would you expect someone to have that creates iron buckets (or other typical items) for a living?
2) how many ranks in craft black smithing would you expect someone to have that creates bells (or other high quality items) for a living?

Thanks

Well, leaving aside the fact that an iron bucket is too heavy to be very useful, I'd expect any blacksmith to have maxed out skill ranks and Skill Focus (blacksmithing). So a first level commoner with straight 10s for ability scores should have 6 ranks. I'd expect that blacksmith to be able to make nails, horse shoes, plow blades, cauldrons, iron bands for barrels and the like, and all the other common accoutrements of daily life. I would not expect this blacksmith to be able to make weapons or armor, aside from (possibly) iron arrowheads and spear tips.

 

[Buttercup]

As a someone practicing their trade they can earn half their check in gold. With taking 10 and one rank and no other mods a person would make 5.5 gp a week. That is more than five times what an untrained person would make (on 1 silver a day). Does that seem right? Not asking from a moral point of view; more from a "game world building" one.

As others have said, yeah this seems correct, given the overhead of being a blacksmith. However, the D&D economic engine quickly falls apart if you examine it too closely, so don't worry about it overmuch. Unless you are DMing for Rain Man, no player is ever going to ask you to explain the niggling details of your economic system.

 

[painandgreed]

. However, the D&D economic engine quickly falls apart if you examine it too closely...

Much like their combat engine for that matter. However, the combat system is expanded upon much more.

Actually I'd expect the bell maker to have ranks in Casting (brass, not spells) rather than blacksmithing, and I'm not usre how simple an iron bucket would be in that level of technology. Pounding ingots out to sheet iron and then cutting and riviting well enough to prevent leaks. Once again, I think that is almost something that is more easily cast as a small cauldron than smithed.

Anyway, back to the orginal question, I would expect a professional blacksmith to have max ranks and possibly skill focus for +6 total. Somebody else who has blacksmith but where it might not be their only profession with just three ranks for +3 total. The more experienced or well off professional blacksmith would also have masterwork tools and assitants for a +10 total and thus capable of masterwork items. Add more ranks as per appropriate level to how you have commoners advance in level in your campaign.

If you wanted to modify the economic system, you could do so by saying that the average weekly wage that can be pulled in doubles for every +10 after 13. So people without +3 can't make a living on a craft or profession and are treated and unskilled. +3 to +12 make half their skill check in wages a week. +13 to +22 make their skill check in wages a week. +23 - +32 make double their skill check in wages a week, etc., etc., etc... This means that if you one of those pesky 20th level commoners as per pg. 139 or the DMG, they'd be making way over four times what the 1st level commoner is making rather than little more than double. you could also add in some craft and profession feats that would do things like allow to make things for less material costs, speeding up time to contruct, or Improved Skill Focus.

 

[Crothian]

That's the default answer for a dedicated craftsman.

It's worth remembering that Experts are people also. Any particular smith might have a different feat than Skill Focus, or a Craft skill below his maximum, due to facts in his background or circumstances that have little to do with blacksmithing. That might be perfectly adequate for the bucket-mender who seldom needs to meet even a DC 15, or to make anything costly enough to need more than a week's work (10 gp or so).

I think this would be the exception. THe higher the skill, the more money they make. So sur ethey don't need a high skill to make the simple items, a high skill does bring in the cash.