Skip Williams' Beguiler Article

[Henry]

NOTE: Let's please have no Skip Williams bashing. I've met him in person and he's a great guy.

I was pleased to see this article, because when the PHB2 first came out two months ago I saw a good bit of concern from a few people that a beguiler was not very playable. It's a good article for getting people thinking in the right direction for this class, and some good strategies. The only thing that did leap out as a bit wrong, though -- Don't Beguilers already get Whelm as a class list spell?

But the points of a beguiler are coming through:

--Focus on deception and misdirection, or on utility skills. Mass damage won't ever be your hallmark.

--Use your proficiencies and armor choices to appear as something you aren't (a fighter, a rogue, heck, even a priest!)

--Shadow evocation and shadow conjuration may be the most useful spells you could possibly pick up from the advanced learning ability.

Anyone else find this to pique their interest in beguilers more, either to play or introduce in a campaign through DMing?

 

[Ilium]

Beguilers look cool to me and I'll be introducing one in my campaign as an adversary soon. Like rogues, they will have a lot of trouble with certain foes (vermin, oozes, mindless undead, constructs, etc.). But they'll be absolute murder against powerful, low-will-save foes like giants.

The shadow conjuration and evocation point is a good one, and I'll make sure my NPC has one or both.

 

[shilsen]

Anyone else find this to pique their interest in beguilers more, either to play or introduce in a campaign through DMing?

Nope. But only because I already think it's an excellent class and have been planning to use it ever since it came out

 

[Urbanmech]

The Beguiler really falls into a support/skill use role. They won't ever be the one dealing gobs of damage to the bad guys, but they can make the bad guys go down oh so easy. Color Spray, Glitterdust, Slow, Haste, Displacement, Silence, and Dispel Magic are all amazing spells that can really help out your party members. The broad skill selection also gives you something to do when the monsters aren't trying to eat your liver. Awesome class, I can't wait to play one.

 

[frankthedm]

Beguilers look cool to me and I'll be introducing one in my campaign as an adversary soon. Like rogues, they will have a lot of trouble with certain foes (vermin, oozes, mindless undead, constructs, etc.). But they'll be absolute murder against powerful, low-will-save foes like giants.

Do they at least get UMD so they are not crippled in fights against foes with unbendable minds? If not, they have little business going into dungeons.

The rogue has the cleric to pick up the slack when the crits go away against undead and such. Is the cleric going to be pulling the weight of three characters when the undead show up with a beguiler in the party? :\

Critters with major immunties are a fact of life in D&D, PCs who think their powers are so kewl and then sulk like a child when the monsters don't happen to be vulnerable to thier shtick are getting tiring.

 

[Goldmoon]

Do they at least get UMD so they are not crippled in fights against foes with unbendable minds? If not, they have little business going into dungeons.

The rogue has the cleric to pick up the slack when the crits go away against undead and such. Is the cleric going to be pulling the weight of three characters when the undead show up with a beguiler in the party? :\

Critters with major immunties are a fact of life in D&D, PCs who think their powers are so kewl and then sulk like a child when the monsters don't happen to be vulnerable to thier shtick are getting tiring.

A good player however, wont over specalize and rely soley on "shtick" attacks. Rogues have more weapons than sneak attack. Im sure the Beguiler is more than a "one trick pony" too. (I havent given it a close look yet)

 

[lukelightning]

Even if they are fighting things that are immune to mind-affecting spells, beguilers can still be effictive by buffing up the other PCs with greater invisibility and haste etc.

Also illusions still work vs. mindless things, perhaps even better than vs. regular creatures, since they are just plain stupid. A zombie or golem has very poor perception skills and there are lots of tricks that would work on them. Illusionary creatures to distract them, disguise self to appear as a zombie yourself (zombies never seem to kill each other, why would they attack another zombie that wanders into their room?), illusionary walls to block them, etc.

Beguilers have a far better situation than rogues. When a rogue is confronted with immune-to-sneak-attacking creatures (of which there are many), they are pretty much out of luck and might as well just sit out of the combat.

 

[Goldmoon]

Beguilers have a far better situation than rogues. When a rogue is confronted with immune-to-sneak-attacking creatures (of which there are many), they are pretty much out of luck and might as well just sit out of the combat.

Only of the player playing the rogue is not creative or he built the rogue solely around sneak attack. (that would be stupid on his part)

 

[lukelightning]

Only of the player playing the rogue is not creative or he built the rogue solely around sneak attack. (that would be stupid on his part)

The player is me, and what other options do I have? Everyone says "UMD" but that really only works if you've got that maxxed out, and between all the other rogue stuff I have to do I had no points to spare (along with an average Cha stat). Rogues are all about sneak attack. It's not like they get many feats for combat maneuvers or special abilities.

 

[green slime]

Nope. But only because I already think it's an excellent class and have been planning to use it ever since it came out

I agree with this sentiment. But thanks for posting the link to the article, Henry!