Skyfall (possible spoilers)

The need to have action scenes that cannot be seen. Grabbing the elevator was a nice addition, but it was followed up by a scene in the dark with reflections off a bunch of glass where it's hard to see some things, then followed by a fight scene where the audience cannot tell who is who part of the time because the fight is in the dark. Or, the fight scene on the island where they zoom in, so one doesn't see how James manages to take out five guys, instead one has to fill in the blanks themselves as to where each bad guy was at the time that James makes his move and takes them out. This type of shakey, hard to see filming started appearing in the movie The Rock and has been a staple of action films ever since (the opening scene of Quantum of Solace was this way as well).
Cinematography and editing are both... evolving. I wouldn't necessarily say for the better but handheld/shaky camera movements, especially combined with an overwhelming number of cuts creating visual sequences that literally cannot be followed; these are now standard tools for filmmakers to use - and they've been in use further back than The Rock. SOMEtimes they can actually be used well, even artistically.

I'd offer an example of Man on Fire where (imo) the cuts and unstable camera contribute to an identification with the protagonist who is himself generally disoriented and struggling with stability/purpose in life. Sometimes it's used simply because (it seems...) it would be too much effort to actually film a sequence of actions that the viewers eye can actually follow and comprehend as logical. Much easier to just throw a lot of fast cuts and disorienting camera movement into a pile and give the viewer only a general impression of what must have just happened given just the on-screen results.

why did he not close the door behind him? He just set up a huge bomb behind himself.
For me it wasn't a question of why didn't he close the door but the annoying and instant knowledge that the old, pathetic "fireball rushing down the tunnel is dodged/outrun by the hero" bit was now coming up.

Using a flashlight on the moors in the dark when there are dozens of bad guys a few hundred feet away? What was up with that? "Hey bad guys! Here we are!"
The old man was a gamekeeper, not a secret agent. I think that MOST people don't grasp that a light can be seen VASTLY further away than it will functionally illuminate, nor that movement (people or a light) is the easiest thing for the human eye to notice.

I was also bugged by how incompetent they made Bond appear to be in his testing. He went from being the cream of the crop to not even capable.
Worked for me. He was still recovering from a gunshot which had clearly not been treated by an actual physician in any way (he cut shrapnel out of his own shoulder). The importance, however, is that M chooses to rely on Bond despite his physical condition (and his own denial of his inferior physical condition).

And just standing there and watching an assasination happen without trying to stop it is just plain creepy and way out of character for Bond.
Yeah, that was a bit of a stretch for me too, that he would simply continue to observe as he shoots his way into the building, sets up for and performs an assassination and only THEN intervenes. I just sort of wrote it off that his job at that point was not to prevent any murders but to obtain information about the killers employer.

The scene where he was concerned about his fellow agent at the beginning was Bond, but not the assassination.
Just as a theory how about that he was dubious enough of his own abilities that he felt ne needed to be RIGHT THERE before trying to apprehend him, and thus was willing to let the assassination proceed as a distraction for his own approach.

I was also bugged when the painting had no blood or a hole on it, even though it was in the line of fire of as assassin's rifle bullet. Huh?
I was expecting it but was not bothered by the lack of it. It bothered me more that we were shown little to no reaction by anyone in that room to the exploding window and dead guy on the carpet.

He also could have blown James away on the ice, but instead stands there talking?
Are you SERIOUSLY expecting a Bond villain NOT to monologue - especially when Bond is in an inescapable and vulnerable position?

This villain wasn't a world class Bond villain. His biggest threat was to kill a few agents and cause some harm to the reputation of MI6. Where was the threat to the well being or the economy of the world, or at least the destruction of a major city? In the end, James didn't even save M the main target of the villain, he just killed the bad guy. He didn't thwart the bad guy's plan. Meh.
It IS a decidedly different approach to a Bond film in that it is so heavily character driven and not action driven.

And, of course, hooking a captured laptop into a secure intelligence network. Hmmm. That just fails on so many levels.
You and I and most geeks get that. The vast majority of the moviegoing public, I think, does not. Real-world technical/mechanical accuracy is hardly ever going to be a feature of Bond movies much less movies AT ALL.

Villain bases are affected by the recession I guess. What a dump. I guess film location budgets are limited these days. ;)
I was actually kinda chuffed because I RECOGNIZED where it was. Not long ago I saw a documentary on the place - a compact little city on an island off Japan that had grown up around a mine or somesuch on the island. It was indeed abandoned almost overnight when the mine played out IIRC.

What really got me about those scenes was the fact that a "Bond Girl" was killed so ruthlessly. Though that does happen it doesn't happen much, and the circumstances of it were rather uncharacteristic I thought.

What was with the major bomb that allowed the subway train to derail into a totally different area?
Simple. That is the writer pulling stuff out of his backside to prolong the chase.

If it is required to have the bad guys follow on the moors, then instead of crashing the helicopter into the building, have it fly around the moors and spot M. M gets lucky and shoots down the helicopter, but everyone then knows where she is.
Why did M not grab one of the many automatic weapons off the floor to take with her to replace the pistol she dropped? Why would Bond not have handed her one?

Actually, all the gadgets are rather problematic.
I would go so far as to say that the gadgets are LAZY WRITING. Place the hero in an absolutely inescapable position in Act III - were it not for the single, specialty widget of otherwise incomprehensible utility, which just happens to be what Q hands him in Act II...

The radio likewise didn't make too much sense.
It's only real use is as the setup for a joke - which is later turned back on him.

(Of course, there's also Q's reference to the exploding pen of Goldeneye days. Basically, the universes seem to be colliding. :) )
It's been 50 years since Bond first appeared on screen. Times most certainly had best change... to keep up with the times. Frankly I thought that was an issue with a lot of Bond movies. The formula is TOO predictable. When Q hands Bond some exotic gadget that has no fathomable tactical advantage you know that it will be used for a deus ex machina.

And the villain seemed nasty enough - his initial threat was really quite nasty (expose the agents), and his later personal obsession with M also seemed vicious enough to be a credible (albeit small-scale) threat. I didn't really have an issue with any of that.
Ditto for me.

(Of course, if Silva's real goal wasn't "kill M", and the capture/escape wasn't part of his original plan, then it really doesn't make sense that the list would be on the laptop.
See also, "mcguffin". Sometimes the object that is supposed to be so important and which all the characters are so concerned with exists only to GIVE them a concern. The classic example is the Maltese Falcon. What it is, why it's valuable doesn't matter. What matters is that everyone wants it. The importance of the list is that it gives MI6 a reason to go after Silva, capture him, and give him the confrontation with M which is his actual motivation - not the list itself.

The good news is that I think they have here. The Bond we see in the last scene is very far from the Bond we see in M's house. He's regained his edge and exorcised his demons. Bond is back.
Agreed. I would expect the next movie to be somewhat closer to the classic Bond formula.
 

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Finally saw it today. Liked it, though ultimately I thought it was a touch below Casino Royale, mostly because of pacing and a somewhat improbably incongruence of plot. OK, it's not From Russia with Love or Dr No, but it's far better than any of Roger Moore's movies. Some editing and pacing changes (e.g. drop the whole train-into-tunnel bomb scene) and I might elevate it above Casino Royale.

I like where they're taking Bond -- I far prefer the more human, more flawed Craig Bond than the superhero Bond of Moore or Dalton, though as an actor I still don't think he quite matches up to Connery. I like that they've generally toned down or eliminated the gadgets (though what they did to the DB5 was just wrong).

Silva made for a pretty good Bond villain, in a batsh*t-crazy-yet-competent sort of way.

The transition at the end to traditional Bond elements has me looking forward to the next film.
 

Are you SERIOUSLY expecting a Bond villain NOT to monologue - especially when Bond is in an inescapable and vulnerable position?

The villain had just finished monologuing a few minutes earlier. The villain had just told all of his men to kill Bond 20 seconds earlier. He gets the chance to kill Bond himself and he monologues a second time. Sorry, that's bad writing.
 

The villain had just finished monologuing a few minutes earlier. The villain had just told all of his men to kill Bond 20 seconds earlier. He gets the chance to kill Bond himself and he monologues a second time. Sorry, that's bad writing.

You want some kind of "classic" Bond yet you don't want villains monologueing every chance they get? I think you're confused about what you want. Would a Charles Gray-based Ernst Stavro Blofeld have passed up that chance to taunt Bond? I don't think so.
 

You want some kind of "classic" Bond yet you don't want villains monologueing every chance they get? I think you're confused about what you want. Would a Charles Gray-based Ernst Stavro Blofeld have passed up that chance to taunt Bond? I don't think so.

If Blofeld has just FINISHED monologueing, told his men to kill Bond, and then started monologueing again instead of killing Bond, then it would be stupid there as well.

Once the villain does his monologue and then decides to kill the hero, it doesn't make sense to go "Wait, wait. I want to monologue some more".

This is a type of plot consistency. If there is a reason the villain should monologue again ("Oh, before I kill you, I forgot to ask you about xyz" or "Oh, before I kill you, I put abc into a death trap"), then fine. It makes sense according to the plot. But here it didn't. He had 30 seconds earlier ordered his henchmen to kill Bond (because Bond was starting to thwart his plans) and suddenly, he changes his mind for no apparent reason.

Movies sometimes have these types of inconsistencies within them (Glenn Close as a lawyer once wore 4 different outfits in a court of law, all during the same trial on the same day). They bother some people. They don't bother other people. They are still inconsistencies.
 

It bothered me more that we were shown little to no reaction by anyone in that room to the exploding window and dead guy on the carpet.

My understanding was they were part of the setup for the assassination. They were expecting the guy to be shot.

The poker chip that led Bond to Macau was payment for the hit.
 

Cinematography and editing are both... evolving. I wouldn't necessarily say for the better but handheld/shaky camera movements, especially combined with an overwhelming number of cuts creating visual sequences that literally cannot be followed; these are now standard tools for filmmakers to use - and they've been in use further back than The Rock. SOMEtimes they can actually be used well, even artistically.

There's been talk of Oscars for that silhouette/lights fight. One man's "lazy direction" is another man's award-winning genius.
 

There's been talk of Oscars for that silhouette/lights fight. One man's "lazy direction" is another man's award-winning genius.

In a different, possibly more drama driven style of movie where portions of an event are hidden and off camera to hint at the events without blatantly showing them, this type of cinematography might actually be artistic and additive to the movie. Unfortunately, these types of cinematic changes are detrimental for a Bond style of action movie. IMO.
 
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Historically, there has always been "art" that is crap, but held up by the elite (in this case, rich bored people on the Oscar committee in Beverly Hills) as being superior. That doesn't necessarily make it so.

Whatever, dude. Your tastes and preferences are no more "fact" than mine or anyone else's. I thought that scene looked very, very cool and the use of colours and lighting to be clever and inspired; and I'm clearly not alone in this opinion.

KD, could I ask you to refer to some conversations you had with Kevin a while back about how you present your opinions? In all these years, I've never particularly run into you on the boards, but with the forum rearrangement it's become very much in front of my nose recently in a couple of threads. It gives me a clear context for what those conversations were about. Let's remember that an opinion is nothing more than that, eh? We don't want to be going down that road again. This thread isn't particularly egregious, but starting to veer that way. At least one recent thread which you derailed within the past couple of weeks was, though - I'm sure you know which I'm referring to. Just be careful about how you phrase things, please.

This isn't in red warning text because I'm a participant in the thread, and wish to remain objective. But I'll be asking other mods to keep an eye on this. We don't want to slip back to where we were a few months ago, do we?
 
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There's been talk of Oscars for that silhouette/lights fight. One man's "lazy direction" is another man's award-winning genius.
"It's very pretty Bishop, but what are we looking for?" - Ripley

I thought it looked fantastic. It was indeed partly on my mind in talking about editing, etc. - but it also wasn't adding to the excitement/action quotient of the movie at all because it was impossible to follow the action and see who was winning or even scoring any points. It was a little out of place for a traditional Bond movie, which this wasn't so much.

By all means give it an Oscar for cinematography, but with the way that Oscars in particular are awarded it need not be seen as having ANY bearing on its value and appropriateness in the larger whole of the movie. That value is decided by each individual AMPAS voter. AFAIK there aren't even any suggested guidelines for assessing merits for any category.

Other awards (Golden Globes, DGA) are much the same - it is simply assumed that the people voting know enough to know the difference and they choose if they care or not. It's "out-of-place-ness" would really only come into play when considering the awards for direction and art direction. I would think that it wouldn't have much negative impact at all in deciding best picture though unless you were wanting a more traditional approach to a Bond film.
 

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