D&D General Slaads are failures as exemplars of Chaotic NEUTRAL

[werecorpse]

I did a bit of research on Slaadi a year or so ago, using resources like the FR Wiki, some Dragon Articles, and such. Turns out, that Red and Blue Slaad are known to kidnap victims, like entire villages, infect them then divide them into different camps so that when they spawn as either red or blue, they don't attack each other, because Reds and Blues hate each other and try to kill each other on sight.

Slaad are not chaotic. At all. Except when they are randomly "wee look at me being crazy" like with one of their bosses potential just stopping a combat encounter to smell a random flower, or take a nap, ect.


So, I took the step. They are no longer chaotic. I was getting rid of Limbo anyways, "pure chaos" is not something you can really do justice in a game anyways.

Instead, they are another race like Mindflayers and other abominations that are parasitic and use mortals to breed. They are seeking magic and arcane power (because to break out of the dichotomy of Red and Blue, you need to infect a spellcaster, then the progression of green, grey, death, black, white, special begins... yeah, they have a set evolution path per RAW too, so "chaotic") and trying to discover how to harness and steal magic from the world to use in making themselves more powerful.

Honestly, with the Aliens vibe, they make far better Abominations and Horrors than they ever did "chaos creatures"

Agree with your last sentence. I got no problem with them being a CN limbo created aberration with some law at their core (ie the weird rigid evolution etc) due to the fact they were partially created by the presence of the spawning stone.

I disbelieve that red slaad with an int and wis of 7 both hate blue slaad AND go to the effort of kidnapping villagers to infect them so they turn into blue slaad. And vice versa. Why? So they can increase the population of things that want to kill them? Seems like a lot of effort for a major negative.

If you’re saying it’s done by the evil upper echelon of Black slaad then maybe sure. Why not but those guys aren’t CN they have an evil motive etc

I would put such stories in my game down to being the standard stuff people say about xtra planar creatures

 

[Mecheon]

I think Pathfinder's Proteans do the role of CN planar exemplar better then Slaads.

Completely agreed.

The idea I had with the totally-not-Fey was they were full on no substantial form beings who were upset with the concept of a constrained multiverse and would reveal in the chaos of what was remained, and try to break what order they could regardless of the consequences, going in your scale of "Will defy the law in small, possibly petty ways" all the way to "Will attempt to break the fabric of reality". Following on from that, the rough idea I had for at least one is it basically had the Pathfinger Gnome thing of needing to experience change and new things or it would waste away, and the idea that they could basically be harmed by banality and paperwork. In the end scrapped it all though, but was a fun exercise at least.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Fey are completely perfect for CN in terms of lore. Even with all their bans and geases and weird rules, those tend to be supernaturally enforced, rather than willing law-following, and easy to break if not. I won't do X because I'll be cursed if I do isn't lawful, it's rational fear of consequences. They should certainly be the the exemplars.

Slaads are weird mish-mash of concepts, and as people have said, work well as Abominations/Far Realm beings but very poorly as CN exemplars.

 

[Celebrim]

I agree with the general gist that slaad as presented make no sense. However, I would also assert that demons in D&D lore do a poor job of being CE, devils do a poor job of being LE, modrons do a poor job of being LN, and the others probably only avoid this observation simply because they've never been very much represented. Also true, Drow do a poor job in fiction and D&D lore of being CE, and Paladins do a poor job in fiction of being LG.

The Explicatae Incompositae - Being A Bestairy of the Sometime Lords of Chaos

Part the First: Introduction I will now undertake to do something which I know to be foolish – provide for the reader a summary and overview of the race which is most commonly called ‘Slaad’ amongst the learned. There is much that is said regarding this race which is sheer poppycock and...

www.enworld.org

 

[Umbran]

I disbelieve that red slaad with an int and wis of 7 both hate blue slaad AND go to the effort of kidnapping villagers to infect them so they turn into blue slaad. And vice versa. Why? So they can increase the population of things that want to kill them? Seems like a lot of effort for a major negative.

Have you considered that sticking to rigid logical sense... is not particularly chaotic?

 

[Von Ether]

That would be fine if they weren't given the job of CN exemplars, but they are supposed to be CN, not just monsters.

I reskin stats so much and I never do any planar stuff that alignment shannagins rarely matter

 

[Farealmer3]

Have you considered that sticking to rigid logical sense... is not particularly chaotic?

The problem is that kind of statement along with "it's just beyond mortal understanding" Has too often been used in D&D(and fiction in general) as a substitute and/or cover for poor writing.

 

[dagger]

Kender.

Kender PC is a mistake only made once.

 

[dagger]

Never occurred to me how un CN they really are, but you are correct.

They have always just been a really evil and scary race to fight since 1e/2e like dark elves, or githyanki.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

4e got it right, every other edition igored Slaadi behavior, which as depicted is 100% Chaotic Evil in every depiction of them. They are always shown as predatory and even some demons appear to do Chaotic Neutral in action better then them.

See the problem is Slaads as depicted are too homocidal, more then simply chaotic, they hunt humaniods for breeding, and there appears to be no facet of them that counter balances this blatant evil.

Slaads should be as likely to be kind as cruel or even indifferent, but when have the Slaad ever been depicted as something other then predatory. They are the equivilant of the Magog who with exceptions like Rev Bem, are seen as Chaotic Evil. Both species rape and murder as way of life (implanting victims is argueable a form of rape, and TV show Andromeda refers to it that way). Where is the neutrality.

D&D needs way better exemplars of Chaotic Neutrality. It has great exemplars of every alignment except Chaotic Neutral.

Or reform Slaads so they are as helpful as they are dangerous, creative as they destructive.

Forcibly using sentient humanoids to reproduce is not any more evil than humans eating meat. Its arguably even harder to fault them because abstaining outright means no reproduction at all.

That said i actually dont think they are chaotic enough. They are very hierarchical.

Also, eating meat is not evil, its delicious. And vegetarianism is not evil either. Its just silly.