Sleep is the most worthless spell

[gjnave]

HugE dissapointment with this one - such a classic spell that I've loved ever since Wizardry I.
Now you take it as your valuable daily, and then even if you hit, they're not asleep. All they have to do is roll 10+ and its over (with a slow). Pbbbthhh....

We house-ruled this one and put the monsters to sleep.

What are your thoughs?

 

[Almacov]

I've never actually seen this spell in play, but I remember people actually raving about its potency when 4e came out.

It's important to remember that 4e runs on different balance assumptions than previous games, and first-round deaths are less common.
Sleep affects 25 squares, with a range of 20, and slows (save ends) whether or not it hits. That's a fair bit of control right there.
There's also just under a fifty-fifty chance that the round after that the target will fall unconscious, opening it up to coup-de-grace, which is now performable as a Standard action, allowing any allies to swarm on over and pick them off with ease.

It's powerful.

 

[Ryujin]

It may not be the iconic spell that you remember, but it's pretty darned powerful in the scale of other powers of the level. Look at the effects of unconsciousness:

UNCONSCIOUS
- You’re helpless.
- You take a –5 penalty to all defenses.
- You can’t take actions.
- You fall prone, if possible.
- You can’t flank an enemy.

The first two are key, because this is what they can result in:

HELPLESS
- You grant combat advantage.
- You can be the target of a coup de grace.

So the party rogue can run around killing off the downed enemies, with a fair bit of efficiency.

 

[Cyronax]

HELPLESS
- You grant combat advantage.
- You can be the target of a coup de grace.

So the party rogue can run around killing off the downed enemies, with a fair bit of efficiency.

Its the killswitch of the heroic tier. I like the swinginess inherent in the spell. It livens up the game and I enjoy other similar elements in 4e.

But then again, I sometimes miss the 'save or die' style effects of earlier editions. But then again, I usually am the DM.

 

[gjnave]

RIght.. in theory this spell should be great. In play, it has always been a disappointment, to the point where I dont even use it. All they need to do is roll > 9. Having used it several times, ive probably put to sleep 2 montsers. Not worth a daily, imo.

 

[Droogie128]

RIght.. in theory this spell should be great. In play, it has always been a disappointment, to the point where I dont even use it. All they need to do is roll > 9. Having used it several times, ive probably put to sleep 2 montsers. Not worth a daily, imo.

It can become an "I win" button if you have a Rogue or Executioner in the party.

 

[Stalker0]

you don't use sleep unaided. You combine it with the orb wizard and a saving penalty item...then it becomes on of the most powerful spells in the game.

19th level my party wizard has still using it to great effect.

 

[Blue]

HugE dissapointment with this one - such a classic spell that I've loved ever since Wizardry I.
Now you take it as your valuable daily, and then even if you hit, they're not asleep. All they have to do is roll 10+ and its over (with a slow). Pbbbthhh....

Sleep with a standard wizard build = nice. Multiple opponents auto-slowed, with have a chance of at the least loosing actions and and the most get coup de graced.

Sleep with a wizard designed to reduce saves (such as with orb mastery, and maybe some feats or items to help) = uber nasty.

Wait until a solo gets automatically put to sleep with your houserule, or even a pair of elites - with the action economy making sleep auto-work is much more powerful than other powers if the characters are smart who they target with it.

 

[Ryujin]

It can become an "I win" button if you have a Rogue or Executioner in the party.

... or even a number of characters with high-crit weapons.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Sleep is still useful well into Paragon via the Spell Focus feat, slapping a nice juicy -2 on all saving throws against Wizard powers, every round. Most other save penalties got nerfed to only apply to the first save made, but this one survived intact.

All you need is 13 Cha by 11th level. Suddenly those elites have their bonus to saves paved over, and even solos have a much-less-scary +3 instead of +5. Stack SF with Orb Mastery, or an item, and you have nearly guaranteed that most of the monsters will fail the first save, and then be struggling to wake up before the Rogue or Assassin comes along to send them to the afterlife with massive helpings of Coup-de-grace damage.