D&D 4E Slight Rant on 4E FR So Far and Where It May Go [SPOILERS]

[PeterWeller]

You know, I love the Realms, but I've never deluded myself into thinking it is anything but another generic fantasy world. Granted, it's a very detailed generic fantasy world, but some of you are acting like they're reforesting Athas.

 

[Stone Dog]

Granted, it's a very detailed generic fantasy world, but some of you are acting like they're reforesting Athas.

They're WHAT?!?! Those MISERABLE caluminous crook-pated malcontent mangled swag-bellied wagtail MOTHERFoh... wait... you didn't mean... sorry.

 

[Brian Compton]

You know, I love the Realms, but I've never deluded myself into thinking it is anything but another generic fantasy world. Granted, it's a very detailed generic fantasy world, but some of you are acting like they're reforesting Athas.

Since it seems like WotC is trying to turn Faerun into Athas, don't give them any more ideas .

Seriously, FR has been one of the most popular gaming worlds in the history of Fantasy RPG. There are certain things that have made it popular, such as the wide variety of gods and the fact that they interact deeply in the world (hence, having to explain to a newbee to FR that atheism would be very out of place). For me, that is something that IS the Realms. Maybe this won't change, but if they're trying to bring the Realms more inline with the default setting, there is that risk. Likewise, if drow are going to be a more commonly used PC race, that means a lot more drow in the upper world. This would be another big change, from small rare pockets of Elistraee followers or the two organized groups of Vhaerunians to a large host of them. This also means taking them from a rarely used scary enemy to "oh, more drow- yay."

WotC, prove me wrong please. But I'm guessing they won't, which again means that FR will be a nice place to read about, but I won't want to play there.

BTW, the points of light thing- does that remind anyone else of Palladium's RIFTS setting? I liked RIFTS, but as it's own setting, not imposed on FR.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

WotC, prove me wrong please. But I'm guessing they won't, which again means that FR will be a nice place to read about, but I won't want to play there.

BTW, the points of light thing- does that remind anyone else of Palladium's RIFTS setting? I liked RIFTS, but as it's own setting, not imposed on FR.

I'm guessing they will, and that faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar less of the FR will be destroyed outright than the doom & gloom merchants are suggesting. In fact, I suspect that what's upsetting people most is the 100-year jump, rather than any of the other changes, because that would dramatically change the face of the FR regardless of any godsplosions/divine purges.

I really doubt that we'll see an FR with "Greyhawk"-like numbers of gods (i.e. not many), particularly. Even if they eliminated the EVERY single god in Faiths and Avatars (the 2E "secondary gods" book), the FR would still be the FR. No-one needs Siamorphe or the Red Queen or any of that bunch of jokers, frankly. They weren't there when I bought FRA in 1989, and if they're not there when I buy FRCS 4E in 2008, well, I won't miss 'em. Same goes for the racial gods. They're fine, but they're not hugely important, and I think it would make the FR MORE FR-like if the other races worshipped aspects/renames of the main gods.

Now, if they start dropping major and interesting gods, sure, that'll make me less interested in coming back to the Realms (Illmater, Mask and Gond come to mind), but Lathander's transformation into Aumanthor, whilst dull as ditchwater, frankly would probably have happened in a "no catastrophe" 100-year advance, and the chances of the current Mystra surviving 100 years were always extremely low, that dim inappropriately-NG bimbo (when you're using your godly powers to have exhibitionist sex with aging archwizards, in the cut-throat divine world of the FR, you're only going to last so long).

I mean, what does the FR mean to me, in a positive way:

A land of mystery and adventure (aren't they all?)
A land with many gods, some of them unusual/original.
A land where civilization has existed for thousands upon thousands of years, rising and falling, leaving huge numbers of un-explored/semi-explored ruins chock-full of magic.
A land which isn't quite "medieval", nor modern, but something else (and almost completely lacking in "magitech" and the like).
A large, very detailed setting.
A place with names that don't completely suck.
A land where magic is common, but not everpresent, and where other planes frequently touch this one (esp. in later 2E/3E this was, and I like it a lot).

I could go on, but those are the major points I think.

Maybe the FR's problem isn't that it's powerfully distinct from other settings. I think it's distinct enough, though, to survive being advanced 100 years. So long as the names and general style of the FR survive (a style which I find hard to describe, but there's something "shiny" about the FR, grrr, wish I could explain better), and none ofthe above elements dramatically change, I'll be interested in coming back, because the negative elements, which I can list if someone likes, will be gone.

Edit - on RIFTS - The points of light thing in RIFTS was very extreme. If you think the FR is going to be "RIFTS"-like, I really really think you're in for a surprise.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You already have the 4e FRCS?

Yes. I broke into their office and stole it.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

but some of you are acting like they're reforesting Athas.

That's a great summary of what all the information we have points toward.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I really doubt that we'll see an FR with "Greyhawk"-like numbers of gods (i.e. not many), particularly.

I'm baffled by Greyhawk not having many gods. There are at least 80 or 90 of them. I've never really read the entire list of gods in the FR, but I believe the lists are probably comparable.

The only real difference is that there are a couple (maybe 20 or so) MAJOR gods that are important in Greyhawk. The rest of the gods tend to have almost no followers and are rather obscure to the average person.

Unfortunately, due to FR canon, all FR deities needs to have a significant number of followers to continue to stay gods. So, even the insignificant ones still have to be somewhat significant.

 

[The Little Raven]

Any Other Standard Fantasy Setting 4e.

Forgotten Realms was already the "generic setting that snatches anything it can from other settings." It's pantheon is composed of deities taken from various mythologies (Tyr, renamed Heimdall as Helm, Mulhorandi, etc.) and D&D settings (Corellon, Lolth, etc). When 3rd edition came, it got worse, because it noticed that Dragonlance wasn't on the agenda, so it stole tinker gnomes, then when it saw Planescape was in it's grave still, it took on the Planetouched as suddenly a big part of the Realms.

And then there's been the biggest problem in the Realms, which stems from the oldest incarnation of the setting: Why the hell should I go out and risk my neck when there are least a dozen good organizations full of meddlesome, high-level uber-NPCs to save the world?

Most of the heroes from the old novels (except maybe a couple) will be dead and forgotten.

God forbid they take away the stupidest aspect of the setting: you can't walk a mile without finding some high-level CG NPC that works with Elminster and the Harpers to save the world.

In other words: The only thing that sets the Realms apart from every other 4e setting and most other fantasy settings will be the name. And that will also be the only thing the 4e FR will have in common with the old FR.

The only thing that set the Realms apart was it's penchant for stealing things from other settings. The Realms has always been Blandville because it never actually had a solid identity of it's own, since it's premise was basically "You can put anything from anywhere in this world." Drizzt is actually the most unique thing to come out of the setting, while Ed's favored wizardly NPCs are mainly just Gandalf (Elminster, Khelben) recolored.

 

[PeterWeller]

That's a great summary of what all the information we have points toward.

Yeah, and in other news, the sky is falling.

 

[Kesh]

I actually think <i>this</i> was always the real problem with FR: if you don't follow the novels, you don't know what's going on in the continuity. After a year, some new rulebook comes out referencing an event from a novel and, if you haven't read it, you're lost.

The novels are also what drove the über-ness for Drizzt and Elminster, among others. Honestly, the novels are what makes FR so popular, not the setting itself. People play in the setting to play in the same sandbox as their favorite NPCs from the books. It's only folks like us, who hang out on gaming boards, that really follow the setting itself.