Small boost to Fighters.

[Stalker0]

Also, the problem with most PRCs is you get way to much for far too few prereqs.

Originally, PRCs had stiff requirements to getting in. A lot of prcs now simply require ranks in skills you would get anyway and an easy to get feat.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Also, the problem with most PRCs is you get way to much for far too few prereqs.

Originally, PRCs had stiff requirements to getting in. A lot of prcs now simply require ranks in skills you would get anyway and an easy to get feat.

Originally PrCs had stiff requirements to getting in? That's funny because as I remember, the second prestige class I ever read, alphabetically, was Assassin, whose requirements of skills that would get anyway and no feats are virtually nonexistant.

 

[Crothian]

the Pr Cla have killed high level core class play since they offer things the core classes can't possbile get or compete with. What I'd like to di is take the fighter bonus feat list and instead make them fighter only feats so that only fighters can take them.

 

[Nifelhein]

What I think is the problem beyond 12th level is not the base classes progression, but simply the idea of a PrC having the be better and they are usually not any more limited than the core.

I kinda like rogues because it is the one class, aside from monks, that you feel sorry for leaving behind, but when you hve arcane trickster around you can't be sorry anyway.

And for rogues, check their rogression, they get 4 feats, +5d6 sneak attack some trap bonuses, while a fighter gets 5 feats... man, i wish i could get a feat that gives +5d6 of sneak attack!

Rogues are what one should think about when making a class ability for mid to high levels.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I still haven't really worked out anything for the high-level Fighter, but one thing I've done to increase their overall power is to use the Weapon Group Proficiencies from Unearthed Arcana. Fighters even have an extra proficiency group more than any other class.

Remember, there's nothing stopping a Fighter from picking up GWS in more than one weapon (or weapon group). +2 to hit and +4 to damage with both a melee weapon and a ranged weapon expands their versatility on the battlefield quite nicely.

I also take Heavy Armor Proficiency away from all classes that give it, and give Fighters and Psychic Warriors an additional bonus feat at 3rd level.

 

[Liquidsabre]

the Pr Cla have killed high level core class play since they offer things the core classes can't possbile get or compete with. What I'd like to di is take the fighter bonus feat list and instead make them fighter only feats so that only fighters can take them.

I don't know. With the changes we saw in the Ranger class, the notable specials the Druid, Barbarian, and Rogue get at higher levels - we've seen Prestige Classes (in a Realms game to boot) fallen somewhat to the wayside. Prestige classes are a bit overrated. I see about half of the core classes competeing in a balanced way (Cleric btw not being one of them!) with PrCs, the other half are a bit iffy.

The fighter is an interesting and unique problem, if relatively minor (though it grows larger at the highest levels). Our game group saw this somewhat alleviated with the advent of our own tweaked Weapon Group variant that has seen the fighters staple (improved critical, weapon focus, weapon specialization) see greater and more versatile use. Personally, I've never had any problems with a 15+ level Fighter, though this is mostly due to my love of versatile fighters that eventually cover melee, ranged, and mounted combat and all of the feats that these paths entail. Combined with a wise-selection of magic items (not just to enhance their fighting ability, but more subtle anti-magic and transportation-type magic items) makes for a survivable character that is a strong and reliable party member.

 

[nak9788]

A little of topic but: We never actually figured out why only a 4th level Fighter could take Weapon Specialization. I mean, why not a Ranger, or even a Paladin? Our group kinda "ignored" this requirement and instead allowed anyone to take it as long as they had weapon forcus and a BA 4+. We have a Ranger who wanted to be "super-bow-girl" so she took the Order of the Bow Initiate class, thus we allowed her to take the required Weapon Specialization: bow, without taking 4 levels of Fighter.

 

[Rystil Arden]

A little of topic but: We never actually figured out why only a 4th level Fighter could take Weapon Specialization. I mean, why not a Ranger, or even a Paladin? Our group kinda "ignored" this requirement and instead allowed anyone to take it as long as they had weapon forcus and a BA 4+. We have a Ranger who wanted to be "super-bow-girl" so she took the Order of the Bow Initiate class, thus we allowed her to take the required Weapon Specialization: bow, without taking 4 levels of Fighter.

Its because the Fighter class is already a bit weak and has nothing unique compared to the others, so they gave them something special just for Fighters.

 

[nak9788]

Its because the Fighter class is already a bit weak and has nothing unique compared to the others, so they gave them something special just for Fighters.

Well we figured the uniqueness of fighters it that they get all of those extra feats. Weapon Specialization only adds +2 to damage so it isn't incredibly powerful. The feats that are have a TON of pre-requisites in which only a Fighter could would be able to get at a reasonably
low-level. So we essentially made the feat available to anyone, since anyone other than a fighter would basically "pay" more since they have far fewer feats.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well we figured the uniqueness of fighters it that they get all of those extra feats. Weapon Specialization only adds +2 to damage so it isn't incredibly powerful. The feats that are have a TON of pre-requisites in which only a Fighter could would be able to get at a reasonably
low-level. So we essentially made the feat available to anyone, since anyone other than a fighter would basically "pay" more since they have far fewer feats.

That's generally not how it works. The extra feats generally don't stand up against the lovely special abilities from the other classes, especially when you can take a few levels of fighter to get as many feats as you need. Without the 4th-level requirement on Weapon Specialisation (and even with it somewhat), most people would take 2 levels in fighter to get two free feats and then multiclass into something else. This gives someone who continues pursuing fighter at least something special, no matter how minor.