Smudges - All Core books

[Moon-Lancer]

Thanks for coming forward with your posts. If you say that the paper and ink are of the same type as the phb 3.5, I will will take your word for it, and put my trust in you that this is the case.

My book has not smudged yet but I have been extra extra careful due to posts in this thread.

Out of all my d&d books, only the spell compendium has smudges. Was this book printed different?

 

[thatdarnedbob]

Here's my theory:

The reason so many people are noticing smudges more frequently than with 3.5 books is that the 4E books are being read and handled more.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I find it hard to believe that practically every book I've seen in person from my local convention, to the brick and mortar bookseller, my five players in the group and my own core book set that humidity alone has caused these issues. The entire first run was a bad batch.

I have never experienced any of these problems with WotC books printed in the past, and I've been an avid buyer since TSR was bought by Wizards.

 

[ki11erDM]

My books:
Just got my books and this is my experience from a purely physical point of view.
First, they set on my porch in the sun and 90+ degree heat for about 7 hours. All 3 books have slightly wavy pages and I am sure that is from the heat. I often get books in this condition so bothers me not.

Second I was a bit worried about people talking about the smudging and the book binding being different than my 3.5 books so I just tested it out as scientifically as I could.

The first test was just feeling the paper of my 3 new books and my extra 3.5 PHB which was never used and has set on my shelf for a few years. I can tell absolutely no difference between my 3.5 book and any of my 4e books when I comes to paper stock or binding. Maybe I don’t have super l33t fingers that some of you seem to have but I am reasonably convinced it is the same paper.

Next I tried the smudge test. I licked my thumb and rubbed the text of my 3.5 PHB and after a 30 count the ink had smudged slightly and the paper had balled up a little, kind of like when you use an eraser on paper. Next I did the same for my 4e PHB. I had the EXACT same result. Again maybe I don’t have the special oils in my skin that dissolves fresh ink but my saliva and finger friction had the identical effects on both books so I am reasonably convinced it is the same paper and same type of ink.

Next I went on to do the same test with… beer (hay its handy!) and after 30 seconds of rubbing it smudged the ink a bit more than my saliva but again had the same results on both books.

My conclusion? This thread is totally bogus. Did the ink smudge? Yep. So did the ink in 3.5, you just did not notice. Oh and I conclude The Rouse is the man.

 

[Anguish]

I'm going to have to go ahead and agree this is no worse than 3.5's books. In fact, the fact that there aren't page borders going all the way up the outside edges, there's less ink smudge in my world. The 3.5 (non-Eberron) design was horrible, because if I used a typical "grip" with fingers on the cover and thumb on the page, my thumb would inevitably start smudging something.

Kudos on the 4e design. It's cleaner, neater, and better.

Oh. And yes, my pages are wavy. I'm skeptical that'll just Go Away, but it's something I can easily live with.

 

[Hejdun]

I'll jump in and agree that my 4e books (full set) are fine. I was worried after reading this thread, but I'm totally satisfied with the quality of the books.

Huge thumbs up to Rouse for his excellent information.

 

[Mircoles]

My copy of KOTS smudged, but my PHB,DMG and MM are fine.
I also highlight light crazy and thats caused no problems at all.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

My conclusion? This thread is totally bogus.

Your conclusion is wrong.

Just because you haven't encountered the issue doesn't meant that it doesn't exist.

 

[Kaffis]

Your conclusion is wrong.

Just because you haven't encountered the issue doesn't meant that it doesn't exist.

The bogus comment is simply directed at the claim that the problem is *different* in scope than before. I counter that just because you never had this problem with 3.5 doesn't mean it didn't exist then.

One of my PHB's (the one I got from my FLGS on Friday) was a bit wavy. I'm familiar with how humidity affects this, and given our thunderstormy weather of late, it's a non-issue to me. Closes fine, and I think there's a page or two with the flattened ripply creases.

After reading this thread, I did a self-test on my book. I went to the copyright page and pressed my thumb up against text for a 30 count, and then dragged it across the page. There was minor smudging that discolored the white of the paper upon close inspection, but wasn't particularly offensive to read -- the text was modestly less sharp.

So, I was ready to write this thread off as overreaction that could be averted with good handling (as was mentioned, the page layout makes holding places and pages open without slamming your finger on text easy this time around). Then, as I was doing my solid read-through, I noticed that 2 lines of the level-up table were smudged (mind you, noticed upon my first opening of that page).

You know what? Still manageable. We'll send Scott off with a cheer as he chastises the printer about those vaguely annoying flat creases, and get on with the hard use that these books' forbears earned over a decade without falling into an unuseable state.

For the record, my Amazon box set came in today. Initial inspection reveals that either the box or the extra 5 days has kept the pages wave-free, I'm not suffering from pre-smudge, and this set's got no creases. So, yay.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

I counter that just because you never had this problem with 3.5 doesn't mean it didn't exist then.

What exactly are you countering? I never said my 3.5 did or didn't smudge.