Smudges - All Core books

[kaomera]

One of the pages in my DMG is apparently vorpal and now sports dried blood from (at least) three different gamers.

Otherwise my books are in pretty good shape.

So I guess I'm either really lucky, or... not.

 

[brehobit]

Wavy pages are caused by humidity in the paper. Mine are wavy too but when i talked with the product engineer and quality assurance managers about this they said it would settle out and flatten.

As for the paper stock and ink, the ink and paper are the same as we used in 3.5.

Ok,
Given this thread I thought I'd check out my PHB (others still coming from Amazon).
#1 Wavy (but I don't actually care)
#2 Has a significant smear of text on one page.

Given that I've never ever had a smear on any RPG book I own, I'm going to say that this isn't the same ink and paper used in the past. Or at least *something* is plainly different.

Did WoTC use a different printer for this stuff?

Mark

 

[Scott_Rouse]

However the KotS pages are thin, and smudged from only a couple of read throughs. I'd hate to see the state after I play it. If H2 is anything like as bad I won't be buying any more modules.

We used the same stock on KotSF that we used on Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard. That being said I was not happy with how it held up on H1 even though we didn't get the same issues of SGoSG so on H2 & H3 I've already asked the stock be bumped up from 60lb to 80lb stock. I got my sample today and there is a noticeable difference.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

My books are holding up remarkably well, better than any other RPG product I've purchased in a long long time.

Certainly there are going to be printing variations, but I wonder if my local climate is simply extremely favorable.

 

[mach1.9pants]

We used the same stock on KotSF that we used on Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard. That being said I was not happy with how it held up on H1 even though we didn't get the same issues of SGoSG so on H2 & H3 I've already asked the stock be bumped up from 60lb to 80lb stock. I got my sample today and there is a noticeable difference.

That is great news, thanks. I am happy with the core books, as I said only I felt KotS was a bit of a let down- paper quality wise. Looking forward to H2...H3, P1, P2, FRPG, etc etc

 

[Kzach]

We used the same stock on KotSF that we used on Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard. That being said I was not happy with how it held up on H1 even though we didn't get the same issues of SGoSG so on H2 & H3 I've already asked the stock be bumped up from 60lb to 80lb stock. I got my sample today and there is a noticeable difference.

I'd post a thumbs up smilie for this but there doesn't seem to be one

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

We were all very disappointed by the KotS print quality, so it's great news that it has been noticed by WotC.

I was also a little miffed by all the page creases in my gift set, but I'll deal with it. I really don't want to incur shipping charges and extra paperwork for my FLGS just to send it back.

 

[pukunui]

I was very dismayed to find that the core book set I've been waiting for for ages now has a major problem. The ink smudges fairly easily if you place your thumb on it for any long period of time. Anyone else had this problem?

Smudging's nothing new really. I don't know why people are making such a fuss about it. My 3.5 core books have smudged in places. I'm sure other people's have as well. And I remember other people complaining about warping and wavy pages and things with 3.5 books not so long ago ...

 

[Horacio]

My books are fine

I received them last Friday. PHB was a bit wavy, but after a reading intensive weekend, pages seem to have flattened, and everything is o.k. I had no problem with DMG or MM.

According to people in a French RPG forum I read, it seems that most books arrived here with wavy pages, but that after a few days everything goes better.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Cross posted from here:

I am going to post this here and cross post it to any other threads on the subject:

Paper

Questions have come up on the nature of the paper. Is it different? The answer is no. Quote from my Product Engineer:

1. This is the exact same paper all the other rulebooks in the past were printed on - 60# Somerset Matte (612 PPI). I specifically checked and double-checked before writing the specs and the printer sent a confirmation from the paper mill.

Wavy paper is caused be humidity. Here are notes directly from my Quality Assurance manager on the subject:

This is definitely caused by the local temperature and humidity conditions. This issue is most easily noticed in hot and humid environments, but can also show up if you take the books into a cold, air conditioned room as well. Lower temperatures = lower humidity and a sheet that “dries out” can get some waves in it just as easily as a sheet that get’s too wet. This may actually explain why some local shops have all warped page books even in their air conditioned store. And it explains why a book may get the waves after it goes home with someone. Books that have been in a single environment (i.e. on your bookshelf at a store, or later at home) for a while will start to adjust to the environment and the waves will relax or even disappear. This kind of wave will appear on old books as well as new books. I have books here at my desk (both old and new) that are flat and show a slight wave. When I look at all of them the newer books (books that haven’t been at my desk as long) are more likely to have a wave. Also, books that I open or use more often are less likely to show the wave. I do however have some older books that do still show a wave in them even though they have been on my shelf since I last moved my desk. I’m sure the same thing can be noticed at any bookstore or gaming shelf anywhere.

Smudging Ink

This is part of the nature of printing, the printed page, and is usually caused by human hands and the oils they secrete. Here again is my QA manager:

Ink Smudging:
What we are seeing right now appears to be entirely from individual’s body chemistry.

However, there is 1 other possible cause even though it is highly unlikely: That the the inks were not properly set during printing. This is highly unlikely as any problem with the inks setting would cause the ink to smudge and smear in the folding, and binding processes that happen after printing. There are specific checks on press during the run for this, and any thing that might slip through would show up in the consecutive processes. Especially the binding where ink would literally transfer off the page (called offsetting) and would affect lots of books very noticeably. Also, if the ink isn’t set properly it would only affect a specific signature, not the overall book.
Just as a backup check, I took some of my 3.5 and older books off the selves on my desk and tried to smudge them. I was able to get the same results from my old books that I get from the 4th Ed books I have here. My old D20 modern actually smudged easier than any of the 4th Ed books I have. I am willing to bet that the people that are smudging the 4th Ed books can smudge their 3.5 books just as easily.

Other problems

Mis-cut sheets, glue, folds, etc are QA problems and should be returned. quote from my QA manager:

Other problems:
I did notice some reports of other various problems that are legitimate complaints.
· Wrinkles or creases. The hard wrinkles or creases that some people mentioned are legitimate concerns and can be better controlled. It does sound like many of the wrinkle complaints are more likely caused by poor handling at stores or home, but hard creases in a new book can be caused during production. The production problems are usually very hard creases that run into the spine or binding of the book. We should replace any of these that aren’t obviously from poor handling and follow up with our printer.
· Bad cuts, Glue on the binding, or other similar problems. Some of the other small complaints are also legitimate. Duplicated pages (a duplicate signature), End sheets not glues properly, Glue from the binding extending on to the edge of the pages, are a few of the problems I noted in these message boards. These kinds of problems can happen in manufacturing and are normally caught, but some obviously slip through. If we can get samples or pictures of this kind of damage, we can follow up with our printer and make sure we minimize the problems in the future. Also, the “double Printed” comment is probably a problem with process color registration. Legitimate complaint and should be replaced, but most likely only affects a single book or a very few at most.
These other small, legitimate concerns should be replaced and we will investigate it with the printer. However, there does not seem to be very many reports of these kinds of problems so we should be able to resolve them pretty quickly.

I hope this helps.