Sneak Attack: A Little Too Powerful?

[Darkness]

If that Ranger were a Paladin, he could refuse to flank and let such a dishonorable fighting technique rule the day!

I played my last Paladin that way and boy did the party rogues hate me

Now that's cool. Also, given that you're a paladin, a few more people who hate you because of your righteous ways don't matter anyway, do they?

 

[Dimwhit]

I can't agree less. My 11th level Rogue, when he gets a sneak attack off, still doesn't do the same damage on average as the party Barbarian, and he doesn't get to sneak all the time. The sneak attack is an attempt at an equalizer, but it doesn't even do that. At low levels, may they can do a little more, but once fighters and barbarians start getting multiple attacks, they can match or beat a Rogue and his sneaks.

 

[Azlan]

I can't agree less. My 11th level Rogue, when he gets a sneak attack off, still doesn't do the same damage on average as the party Barbarian, and he doesn't get to sneak all the time. The sneak attack is an attempt at an equalizer, but it doesn't even do that. At low levels, may they can do a little more, but once fighters and barbarians start getting multiple attacks, they can match or beat a Rogue and his sneaks.

All the more reason to say that sneak attack really does need tweaking! At low levels, it's a little too powerful; at high levels, not powerful enough. (BTW, most of my campaigns have been low- to medium-level.)

And while we're on the subject of fighter-types getting multiple attacks per round: I found it astonishing, as a DM, how much more powerful my players' fighter-type characters became when they went from 5th to 6th level. Suddenly, they were veritable war machines, especially against humanoids and the like. This, combined with the Cleave feat, enabled them to mow down humanoids like a weed wacker. The campaign suddenly took on a whole new slant.

 

[Drakmar]

Actually.. a small warband of orcs... or better yet Hobgoblins, say about 10 of them.. can be a HUGE obstacle to a party of 4-5 PCs of 5th level...especially if some of them have character levels.

Plus.

what you are saying is..that when the rogue is with the party.. the Party as a whole is able to WASTE a single opponent because the rogue is able to flank and deal huge amounts of damage.

this is a good thing... that means that you will keep party cohesion.

 

[Azlan]

what you are saying is..that when the rogue is with the party.. the Party as a whole is able to WASTE a single opponent because the rogue is able to flank and deal huge amounts of damage.

I guess what I'm really saying is, the rogue's sneak attacks take away some of the shine from the fighter, and even more so from the other fighter-types, which is to the disatisfaction of those non-rogue players. (Myself, I don't have much of a problem with the monsters going down quicker because of a rogue's sneak attack. It's easy enough for me to throw in tougher monsters.)

Now, if a rogue's sneak attack were as uncommon and tricky to implement as they were in 1st/2nd Edition D&D, then I wouldn't have any problem with the high damage they inflict. But my experience has been that a rogue's sneak attacks in 3E D&D come into play pretty often.

 

[Weeble]

Interesting player character, Weeble. And a good example of how a well-crafted rogue (or, in this case, rogue/fighter) can be exceedinly powerful with his sneak attacks. But did we really need all that information? We could've done without the info on his physicial description, his languages, his travelling gear, his animal companion, etc.

(Ah, me! Am I getting cranky, or what?)

Let me give you a simple reason CUT AND PASTE.

 

[reapersaurus]

I guess what I'm really saying is, the rogue's sneak attacks take away some of the shine from the fighter, and even more so from the other fighter-types, much to the disatisfaction of the non-rogue players.

Azlan, how long have you been on the boards?

How could you have missed my looong diatribes saying almost exactly what you just said?

I'm shocked noone has already attempted to slam you by saying "You sound just like reapersaurus!"

Azlan, you are NOT the only one that has observed these inequities in 3E.
Just because Shard you and me are the only ones posting on this particular thread doesn't discount the many other people who have agreed with your sentiments over the months...

Most people who see problems with rogues just post in just ONE of these threads, then they don't usually participate in later discussions. They validate that it is a problem with others, then they make the adjustments in their campaigns to match what they feel should be.

However, the people who see no problem with rogues giving the fighter a run for his money in combat while totally owning all other classes OUT of combat will never fail to enter in these discussions.

 

[HeavyG]

Now that's cool. Also, given that you're a paladin, a few more people who hate you because of your righteous ways don't matter anyway, do they?

Hey, paladins need love too.

They are tough and hard on the outside but when people say that, they cry on the inside.

 

[Azlan]

Let me give you a simple reason CUT AND PASTE.

Well, duh-uhh!

Let me offer you a simple suggestion: EDIT.

(See? I can be a smarty too! )

 

[Azlan]

Azlan, how long have you been on the boards? How could you have missed my looong diatribes saying almost exactly what you just said?

I've been on and off again, throughtout the past year or so.

I had indeed missed your diatribes, repersaurus. Do you have link to them? Or do they no longer exist on this server?