Sneak Attack...Them Darn Halflings :)
- Thread starter FCWesel
- Start date
RigaMortus
Explorer
I thought Hiding was a Standard Action, no? I am pretty sure I read in the rules that most skills are Standard Actions, and the ones that are not would be Free Actions (like Spot and Listen).
If the Halfling was spotted before the attack, then I don't think he can re-hide on the same turn (w/o making a Bluff check). If he was attacking from a hidden position, then according to the rules in the S&S you could re-hide as a Move-Equiv with a -20 to your Hide Check.
One other thing I wanted to correct you with is this:
The Ettin is not denied their entire AC, just the Dex bonus to AC.
If the Halfling was spotted before the attack, then I don't think he can re-hide on the same turn (w/o making a Bluff check). If he was attacking from a hidden position, then according to the rules in the S&S you could re-hide as a Move-Equiv with a -20 to your Hide Check.
One other thing I wanted to correct you with is this:
FCWesel said:
The Ettin is not denied their entire AC, just the Dex bonus to AC.
waytoomuchcoffee
First Post
So how does this affect "Hiding in plain sight"? I assume the penalty was for making sure you were NOT spotted, so you could hide again without using a bluff. With HIPS it doesn't matter if you are spotted or not.
Interesting that this rule basically revises/clarifies hide a bit:
1) Attacking stops your hiding (makes sense, never really stated anywhere else)
2) You can hide as a move action, not a full action, as long as you were hidden before.
I would be tempted to say that HIPS lets you hide again as a move action w/o the penalty, but this could be overpowering to an already abused ability.
Come to think of it, I assume the 10' rule is to avoid being spotted too. There is nothing stopping a HIPS user hiding in the opponent's shadow.
Last edited:
Re: Re: Sneak Attack...Them Darn Halflings 
It's definitely not a standard action, since you can, for example, make a 30' move while hiding (sneaking up on someone) and then stick a knife in their back.
While there might be situations in which you might end up taking a move-equivalent action to hide yourself (like "I go and crouch behind those bushes", or "I climb into that crate"), making it seem like hiding is an "action", you actually always do it in addition to something else. So there's no reason why you can't shoot a bow and hide at the same time, at a huge penalty.
Edit:
Although now that I think about it, that Song and Silence rule just doesn't make sense. You obviously CAN do something like move while hiding (your full speed at -5, or half speed with no penalties) and still make an attack - so there are definitely circumstances in which hiding is NOT a "move action" (since when does 3E have "move actions", by the way?) So whoever wrote that thing up for Sound and Silence either a)Is misinterpreting the rules - not unlikely given that it's not even worded correctly, or b)making a non-standard ruling for this particular situation.
RigaMortus said:
It's definitely not a standard action, since you can, for example, make a 30' move while hiding (sneaking up on someone) and then stick a knife in their back.
While there might be situations in which you might end up taking a move-equivalent action to hide yourself (like "I go and crouch behind those bushes", or "I climb into that crate"), making it seem like hiding is an "action", you actually always do it in addition to something else. So there's no reason why you can't shoot a bow and hide at the same time, at a huge penalty.
Edit:
Although now that I think about it, that Song and Silence rule just doesn't make sense. You obviously CAN do something like move while hiding (your full speed at -5, or half speed with no penalties) and still make an attack - so there are definitely circumstances in which hiding is NOT a "move action" (since when does 3E have "move actions", by the way?) So whoever wrote that thing up for Sound and Silence either a)Is misinterpreting the rules - not unlikely given that it's not even worded correctly, or b)making a non-standard ruling for this particular situation.
Last edited:
HiPS is a standard action while the regular hide ability can be done with a move. Its the difference between using an Ex ability and a Su ability. If you attack while using HiPS and you are standing right there in plain sight using sniper is not an option. Sniper is only for hiding as an Ex ability.
FCWesel
First Post
Hey RigaMortus...
Yeah, I meant AC "Dex Bonus"...just the fingers didn't get over to that side of the keyboard...hehehe.
EDIT:
Someone said something about the halfling making TWO Bluff rolls and that is not true. The halfling would make ONE bluff roll but would be opposed by BOTH heads...each Ettin head making a sense motive roll.
If the Sense Motive roll fails (has to be both heads) then I will allow the Halfling to do one of two things.
1) take the rest of the round to hide, doing nothing else.
2) hide (at -20) and try and get a sneak attack.
There are certain other conditions. There has to be AT LEAST 1/2 cover about the area (in our case it was light forest) and the halfling must retain the 30' minimum distance.
Just some continued thoughts...
Yeah, I meant AC "Dex Bonus"...just the fingers didn't get over to that side of the keyboard...hehehe.
EDIT:
Someone said something about the halfling making TWO Bluff rolls and that is not true. The halfling would make ONE bluff roll but would be opposed by BOTH heads...each Ettin head making a sense motive roll.
If the Sense Motive roll fails (has to be both heads) then I will allow the Halfling to do one of two things.
1) take the rest of the round to hide, doing nothing else.
2) hide (at -20) and try and get a sneak attack.
There are certain other conditions. There has to be AT LEAST 1/2 cover about the area (in our case it was light forest) and the halfling must retain the 30' minimum distance.
Just some continued thoughts...
Last edited:
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Archer said:
This is an oft-argued point. Your position is far from certain, but the rules... search for threads about this here in the Rules forum, if you're interested.
waytoomuchcoffee
First Post
Actually, I went and looked for support for this after he posted it. Archer seems absolutely correct. HiPS is clearly a supernatural ability (it says so right in the description). Page 126 PG: "Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability description).
So HiPS certainly takes a standard action to use. As for whether the regular Hide can be done with a move, PG 69: "You can move up to one-half your normal speed AND hide at no penalty..."
There seems to be no standard way (without magic or special abilities) to use HiPS AND attack the same turn, as they both use a standard action.
Last edited:
FCWesel
First Post
Maybe not a Hide In Plain Sight issue though?
As long as there is cover in which to hide: minimum 50% cover possibilities, such as a forest setting or caves full of stalagmites (sp) and stalagtights (sp), there are things to hide behind and take cover from. The figure, as long as the hide roll is made, is NOT in plain sight, wouldn't you say?
As long as there is cover in which to hide: minimum 50% cover possibilities, such as a forest setting or caves full of stalagmites (sp) and stalagtights (sp), there are things to hide behind and take cover from. The figure, as long as the hide roll is made, is NOT in plain sight, wouldn't you say?
Similar Threads
