Sneak Attacks on Rays

[Pielorinho]

Certainly you can do what you want here. But your "condition" is wrong - you are not readying an action for after he bursts through the door, you are readying an action for after he bursts through the door, but to prevent him from casting a spell. Perfectly legal - providing the condition is something like, "I ready a action to attack whoever comes through teh door before they can do anything else." A bit general, but I'd allow it.

Does anyone have their books handy? I know the books give examples of readied actions, and the "bursting through the door" action is one of the ones listed, IIRC. And it's not phrased with bizarre convoluted language like what you're suggesting, Artoomis.

In any case, if your phrasing works for bustin' down the door, what about saying, "I ready an action for after my buddy misses in an attack against the ogre, but before he does anything else"?

I simply don't see a position that is both consistent and reasonable that doesn't allow for a readied action to go off between iterative attacks.

Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

The way that I believe an invisible attacker sneak attacking an oger should be. Please note this example assumes that combat is already going.

Rogue moves up invisible (no AOO)
Rogue decides to stop to get full attacks next round
Ogre stands stupidly (or does anything that is not moving)
Rogue uses TWF or multi attacks from high bab
First, rogue uses his first attack, full sneak attack damage
Oger is denied dex. He is not surprised or flat footed, by rules
Rogue uses next attack, no sneak attack damage, he's visible
Oger hits rogue
Rogue tumbles away

The rouge only gets sneak attack damage once, because his invis is gone when he takes that attack. If the rogue runs after the first attack, he takes an AoO from the Oger with reach. As soon as the rogue loses invis the Oger gets his dex and Sneak isn't possible, unless flanking.

 

[Pielorinho]

Petrosian, I agree with the content, if not the contemptuous and arrogant tone, of your post completely. How would you suggest it applies to the various examples at hand -- especially the example of Liza's casting of invisibility on Bob after his failed attack and before his second attack?

Daniel

 

[Artoomis]

Does anyone have their books handy? I know the books give examples of readied actions, and the "bursting through the door" action is one of the ones listed, IIRC. And it's not phrased with bizarre convoluted language like what you're suggesting, Artoomis.

In any case, if your phrasing works for bustin' down the door, what about saying, "I ready an action for after my buddy misses in an attack against the ogre, but before he does anything else"?

I simply don't see a position that is both consistent and reasonable that doesn't allow for a readied action to go off between iterative attacks.

Daniel

According to the text describing "Ready Action," your action comes just before your opponent's action.

An individual attack that's part of a full attack routine is not an action. That's the rules.

It's not unreasonable to do it your way, it's just not the rules as written, that's all.

 

[LokiDR]

Pielorinho, you didn't ask me, but since this is an open forum, I would like to offer the following.

If Liza had readied an action to "cast invisibility on Bob when he becomes visible" then Bob would once again be dening the target dex and get sneak attack again. If two characters worked on timing this much, why not?

 

[LokiDR]

According to the text describing "Ready Action," your action comes just before your opponent's action.

An individual attack that's part of a full attack routine is not an action. That's the rules.

It's not unreasonable to do it your way, it's just not the rules as written, that's all.

Why can you attack, then decided to make it a full attack? I know that this a rule stated in either PH or Sword and Fist, but I don't have my books on me.

 

[Pielorinho]

Hope you don't mind, Artoomis; I'm gonna reductio ad absurdem your butt .

First, the SRD:

Specify the partial action a combatant will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. When those conditions are met, the combatant may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes before the action that triggers it. For the rest of the fight, the combatant's initiative result is the count on which the combatant took the readied action, and the combatant acts immediately ahead of the combatant whose action triggered the readied action.

Now for the examples:

I'm fighting a minotaur on a stormy night. It's pitch-black, punctuated by flashes of lightning. Can I ready an action to attack the minotaur as soon as lightning flashes?

No: readied actions occur only in response to "actions." A flash of lightning is not an action per the rules.

A villain points a crossbow bolt at me and my friends, threatening to kill any of us who make a noise. He readies an action to shoot anyone who makes a noise. A baby that I'm holding yells. Can his readied action go off?

No: readied actions occur "immediately ahead of the combatant whose action triggered the readied action," and the baby is not a combatant.

The villain, realizing that "makes a noise" might not work, decides to ready an action to shoot anyone who moves. I try to run away. Does his readied action go off?

No: I'm not fighting him, I'm running away, so I'm not a combatant.

If you read the readied action text overliterally, it becomes ridiculous. I think that the "conditions" part of the readied action text contradicts the "action" part of the text, and that the conditions part should reign. Otherwise, as I said, it can get silly.

Daniel

 

[Artoomis]

Pielorinho, you didn't ask me, but since this is an open forum, I would like to offer the following.

If Liza had readied an action to "cast invisibility on Bob when he becomes visible" then Bob would once again be dening the target dex and get sneak attack again. If two characters worked on timing this much, why not?

Oddly enough, though, if you didallow this, then, according to the rules, you'd cast invisiblity just before Bob became visible.

Obviously silly, so what to do? I'd simply rule that obviously something is wrong here. What's wrong? The condition for the readied action. If (and it's a big if) you're going to allow to have a readied action go off in the middle of someone's action, you still need to figure out what it is that you want action it is that you want to go just before. In this case, you want to go just before Bob's fisrt attack while visible.

Of course, allowing that would be a House Rule, though not unreasonable at all.

 

[Pielorinho]

Another example: I'm being attacked by an improved-invisible rogue, but I have reason to believe the duration on his spell is about to expire. I ready an action to attack him as soon as it expires. Can I do this?

No: the expiration of a spell is not an action as defined by the rules.

Note that I could ready an action to attack him as soon as somebody took an action to make him visible (e.g., my invisible friend cast a silent, stilled dispel magic on him), and that'd work. But I couldn't ready an action to attack him as soon as I can see him.

Feeling reductioed yet?
Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

isn't the line about "immediately ahead of combatant action" just a little strange? You shoot a person BEFORE they make sound? What, are you a diviner now too?