Sneak Peek At Ghosts of Saltmarsh Maps

Here's a sneak peek at some of the maps to be found in the upcoming D&D Ghosts of Saltmarsh, courtesy of WotC's Twitch stream.

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And Dyson Logos, one of the cartographers for the book, has shared some of his work which will be appearing!

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, I figured that. I've never once seen a professionally published map that didn't put north on the top of the page. That's how you make maps. For some bizarre reason though, fantasy cartographers figure that you can aim that compass rose in any direction and it's perfectly fine. Annoys the crap out of me.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Yeah, I figured that. I've never once seen a professionally published map that didn't put north on the top of the page. That's how you make maps. For some bizarre reason though, fantasy cartographers figure that you can aim that compass rose in any direction and it's perfectly fine. Annoys the crap out of me.

So this just isn't true at all. Professionally published maps are used in all professions. In general, the map is oriented on a page which makes most sense given the limitations of a sheet of paper. In geology in particular (since that is where most of the professionally published maps I use are from) one alway looks for the rosette to determine direction if it is important. Many times, the direction isn't that important compared to the relationship between objects.

If this bugs you, you might be a bit too pedantic...

 

[Hussar]

Well, I dunno. I've never seen an atlas, road map, military map, or, frankly any other real world map that didn't put north at the top of the map. Granted it might not be exactly at the top, depending on the declination of the map, but, it's typically pretty darn close.

You're saying in geology that it's done differently? Ok, I'll buy that. I'm gullible. But, for the vast majority of everyone else on the planet, north is at the top of a map. Heck, even electronic maps, like Google Maps does it unless you're traveling in which case, they spin the map in direction of travel, just like you would doing orienteering.

Not so much pedantic as, well, adhering to the way maps have been made for the past thousand years or so in virtually every culture.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not only have I seen published maps which don't have north at the top, I have made them.

Back in the 80s I worked as a cartographer with a small company which created street plans for estate agents. This was back when such things where still drawn by hand. The towns where aligned however fitted best into the space available.

The tendency to put north at the top is a relatively modern innovation. The whole point of drawing a compass rose on a map was to show the orientation. Some maps of Britain are still a couple of degrees off true north simply so the island fits more neatly into a rectangle.

 

[Hussar]

Not only have I seen published maps which don't have north at the top, I have made them.

Back in the 80s I worked as a cartographer with a small company which created street plans for estate agents. This was back when such things where still drawn by hand. The towns where aligned however fitted best into the space available.

The tendency to put north at the top is a relatively modern innovation. The whole point of drawing a compass rose on a map was to show the orientation. Some maps of Britain are still a couple of degrees off true north simply so the island fits more neatly into a rectangle.

Most maps are always off true north really. But, it's pretty rare to see any maps where north isn't at the top, even if it's not exactly north.

Put it another way, it's really, really odd to see north on the left or right side of a map in the real world. Unless the intention is that you're going to turn the map the right way up.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Most maps are always off true north really. But, it's pretty rare to see any maps where north isn't at the top, even if it's not exactly north.

Put it another way, it's really, really odd to see north on the left or right side of a map in the real world. Unless the intention is that you're going to turn the map the right way up.

I guess that polar projections really give you fits. Transverse Mercator projection might be nightmare inducing event if you ever saw one. McArthur's Universal Corrective Map of the World would probably cause your brain to seize.

I think you are too caught up in the orientation of the map. If we ever have a magnetic flip in our lifetime your whole world would be turned upside-down.

A map is just a compact means of communicating spatial relationships. Different orientations serve different purposes.

For example:

"The New York City Department of Transportation places pedestrian friendly maps around the city with the orientation rotated to be “heads-up” or forward-facing so that viewers are facing the map in the same direction they standing for readability. This helps pedestrians to better orient themselves in relationship to the landmarks on the map and to better navigate the city." from geolounge.com

For D&D, most maps have to fit on a standard sheet of paper and a North orientation toward the narrow edge doesn't work for many situations.

However, where orientation really matters is in computer games. It does bug me when an interior cell has a different orientation than the exterior cell. So if I enter a building from a west door, but in the interior the door is now on the "north", well that is irritating. It just means the person that designed the space wasn't paying attention to the details.

 

[Nebulous]

I think the only way to make everyone happy is to include both black and white and colour versions of each map.

Yes I agree. I'm not a fan of the black and white at all, although since many people are, I would love to see both parties helped. If WotC sold digital color map packs I would pay extra.

 

[Hussar]

I guess that polar projections really give you fits. Transverse Mercator projection might be nightmare inducing event if you ever saw one. McArthur's Universal Corrective Map of the World would probably cause your brain to seize.

I think you are too caught up in the orientation of the map. If we ever have a magnetic flip in our lifetime your whole world would be turned upside-down.

A map is just a compact means of communicating spatial relationships. Different orientations serve different purposes.

For example:

"The New York City Department of Transportation places pedestrian friendly maps around the city with the orientation rotated to be “heads-up” or forward-facing so that viewers are facing the map in the same direction they standing for readability. This helps pedestrians to better orient themselves in relationship to the landmarks on the map and to better navigate the city." from geolounge.com

For D&D, most maps have to fit on a standard sheet of paper and a North orientation toward the narrow edge doesn't work for many situations.

However, where orientation really matters is in computer games. It does bug me when an interior cell has a different orientation than the exterior cell. So if I enter a building from a west door, but in the interior the door is now on the "north", well that is irritating. It just means the person that designed the space wasn't paying attention to the details.

And, yet, even with a transverse mercator projection, north is STILL at the top and south is STILL at the bottom.

And, while your maps are oriented for your pedestrians, the original map that these maps are based on are STILL north to the top. Just because you turn the map doesn't really matter.

I cannot believe I'm actually arguing this. It's ludicrous. Just because there are occasional maps that might not be north to the top, it's pretty much standard to put north to the top.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Most maps are always off true north really. But, it's pretty rare to see any maps where north isn't at the top, even if it's not exactly north.

Put it another way, it's really, really odd to see north on the left or right side of a map in the real world. Unless the intention is that you're going to turn the map the right way up.

It was a consequence of the discovery of the magnetic compass*. Prior to that most maps put east at the top, as it was the direction of sunrise.

Given that most D&D settings haven't firmly established that they have a magnetic north that (to some extent) co-insides with geographic north (and our magnetic north is on the move) there is no reason to make that the preferred direction.

Whoever, it is something all map makers understand to be a convention, not a rule. If it was a rule they would long ago stopped drawing map roses to indicate the direction of north, since everyone would know it was at the top without needing to be shown.

*footnote: by people living in the northern hemisphere. If it had been discovered in the southern hemisphere, we would say that a compass points due south.

 

[Hussar]

Sigh.

Really, really, really don't care why. Nor do I care about hypothetical histories.

What I do care about is when modules place their maps at 90 degrees off what it should be, it makes reading the map much more difficult and much easier to confuse. Because, not only is the DM living in the 21st century and is used to nearly all maps being drawn one way, but, every player sitting at the table is accustomed to maps being drawn the same way.

You can talk about it being a custom or whatever, all you like. It really doesn't matter. RPG maps are meant to be used. They are part of the game. Anything that makes them harder to use is bad.

And, funnily enough, if you look at sites like, say, cartographersguild, you'll see thousands and thousands of fantasy maps. You know what virtually all of them have in common? Nearly all of them put north at the top of the map.

Spinning maps just to be "different" or "edgy" or "fantasy" is flat out pointless. Particularly when, again, 99% of D&D maps put north at the top.

Heck, there are many, many maps out there that don't have a compass rose on them. Guess what? They orient North to the top.

Like I said, before this entire, frankly pointless sidebar started, I really wish module makers would follow convention and not try to be "artsy" or whatever the heck they're trying to accomplish.