Sneak Peek At Ghosts of Saltmarsh Maps

Here's a sneak peek at some of the maps to be found in the upcoming D&D Ghosts of Saltmarsh, courtesy of WotC's Twitch stream.

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And Dyson Logos, one of the cartographers for the book, has shared some of his work which will be appearing!

 

[Hussar]

I'm sure glad that this is the only time in D&D's 44-year history that they've made a map where north isn't facing up.

Wow, you guys sure want to beat this poor horse to death. This all started because of a fairly innocuous nonsequitor of mine that I didn't like it when fantasy map artists don't put north to the top of the maps. For some bizarre reason, that turned into this monstrocity of a thread. Now, I haven't posted in here in days to disagree with anyone, and you folks are STILL going on about it.

I'll tell you what. Go through your modules, sourcebooks, anything D&D that has a map in it. Guess what you'll find. About 99% of the maps are oriented north to the top and about 1% are not. So, you can waffle on about how it doesn't matter all you like. The fact that it's almost universal says something about having a standard which helps to prevent confusion.

BUt, hey, what does virtually all of the artists who've ever drawn a map for D&D know? Apparently nothing.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

BUt, hey, what does virtually all of the artists who've ever drawn a map for D&D know? Apparently nothing.

And this is why you fail.

"Artists should take on board that some people find maps difficult if north isn't at the top" is a valid point, people might listen to it.

But as soon as you stat hurling hyperbolic insults people, including those you want to persuade, turn hostile.

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

 

[Hussar]

And this is why you fail.

"Artists should take on board that some people find maps difficult if north isn't at the top" is a valid point, people might listen to it.

But as soon as you stat hurling hyperbolic insults people, including those you want to persuade, turn hostile.

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Frankly, I honestly, and I truly mean this, had absolutely no idea that there were people out there in the world who thought that it was normal for maps not to be north to the top. Again, 99% of the maps you will ever see in your lifetime will be done this way. Very, very few maps are ever not drawn north to the top of the page. And, if we limit ourselves to fantasy maps, again, virtually none of the D&D maps ever made, and there are LOTS of D&D maps, are ever drawn other than north to the top.

But, again, this is "hyperbolic insults"? It's hyperbolic insults to point out facts? Seriously? I can understand the "I don't really care" folks. Heck, I truly understand the "I never thought about it crowd" because, well, most people don't really think about it. It's just taken for granted. But, we've got folks here who apparently have spent a fair bit of time perusing maps, who are arguing that this isn't a standard practice in map making.

Again, when virtually all maps are done this way, how is it hyperbolic insults to point that out?

Look, you want me to see the light here? Show me an entire atlas, published in the last 2-300 years that has nearly all of its maps not oriented north to the top. Sticking to fantasy genre, show me a single D&D product that doesn't orient its maps north to the top for either all or nearly all of its maps.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I shouldn't have to convince anyone of verifiable facts. That's what facts are.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sticking to fantasy genre, show me a single D&D product that doesn't orient its maps north to the top for either all or nearly all of its maps.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I shouldn't have to convince anyone of verifiable facts. That's what facts are.

Sure, here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?604938-I-draw-the-occasional-D-amp-D-map

As for verifiable facts, lets examine that, shall we: Your original hypothesis: "all maps apart from this one have north at the top.": Easily shown to be false. You new hypothesis: "99% of maps have north at the top." This is clearly a case of "99% of statistics are made up on the spot". Unless you can show statistical evidence for your 99% claim, it remains hyperbole (Definition: exaggeration for dramatic effect - it's nicer than calling something a lie).

Potentially valid hypothesise would be: "most maps have north at the top" and "some people have difficulty reading maps that don't have north at the top".

As for not trying to "persuade anyone", why not? We know people associated with WotC visit these forums. If you really think it matters wouldn't it be a good idea to convince them to put north at the top in future products? Otherwise what's the point, apart from trolling?


On the whole, do you not think it might be a bad idea to try and argue maps with someone who used to have "Cartographer" in their job title, or "verifiable facts*" with someone who spent most of the rest of their career as a professional scientist?


*Footnote: There is no such thing as a "verifiable fact". It is possible to show something is false, but the closest you can get to showing something is true is to try really really hard to show it to be false and fail every time.

 

[Azzy]

Wow, you guys sure want to beat this poor horse to death. This all started because of a fairly innocuous nonsequitor of mine that I didn't like it when fantasy map artists don't put north to the top of the maps. For some bizarre reason, that turned into this monstrocity of a thread. Now, I haven't posted in here in days to disagree with anyone, and you folks are STILL going on about it.

Because hillarity ensued.

I'll tell you what. Go through your modules, sourcebooks, anything D&D that has a map in it. Guess what you'll find. About 99% of the maps are oriented north to the top and about 1% are not. So, you can waffle on about how it doesn't matter all you like. The fact that it's almost universal says something about having a standard which helps to prevent confusion.

And I'll bet you that they are formatted to best fit the page layout instead.

BUt, hey, what does virtually all of the artists who've ever drawn a map for D&D know? Apparently nothing.

Must be true for the catographers for a couple atlases that I've had, too. Who knew atlas-makers could get things sooo wrong!

 

[Parmandur]

*Footnote: There is no such thing as a "verifiable fact". It is possible to show something is false, but the closest you can get to showing something is true is to try really really hard to show it to be false and fail every time.

Epistemologically questionable position. How can you verify this to be the case...?

 

[ddaley]

*Footnote: There is no such thing as a "verifiable fact". It is possible to show something is false, but the closest you can get to showing something is true is to try really really hard to show it to be false and fail every time.

Hummm... is this a verifiable fact?

 

[Satyrn]

Someone can always tell him that he can open this link in an incognito/in-private window on his browser.

That would have to be somone not looking to make an Ender's Game reference.


Or at least someone willing to make more than the minimum effort to make such a reference.

 

[Prakriti]

If this thread has convinced me of anything, it's that we need MORE maps where north=/=up, just so people will find them less scary/foreign/unusual.

 

[smbakeresq]

You can also order the maps from Schley himself in some cases, they are worth it to increase size and have them separate from text.