D&D General So… psionic powers are no longer purely mental?

[SkidAce]

Exactly. Magic has so little counterplay in D&D as is, I don't want psionics to remove those few guardrails that are left. I'll take the temple-pressing, grimaced face and semi-visible energy waves over invisible and undetectable abilities.

Would Detect Thoughts have a visible display?

Its an honest question, I have wrestled with this issue for years, the balance is difficult.

We used to have psionics working in anti-magic zones, cause "its not magic", and you couldn't dispel it. Nowadays, we decided that both "magic" and "psionics" are kinda based on quantum physics, so can affect each other. (Cant counterspell psionics though)

And we once had an evil psionic NPC mind blast another NPC to death while casually drinking at a bar.

Now to make a short story/question even longer...My campaign persecutes psionics for that very reason, hunts them like the spanish inquisition. So its mostly NPCs.

But for PCs and NPC interactions, yeah "undetectable" casting is a concern. So we tried on a case by case basis, Detect Thoughts (undetectable), Mind Blast (air distortion), Pyrokinectics (well I'm sure you can see the fire, but can you tell who started it?)

Although not many (in 5e?) DC rolls to check for detecting spellcasting, we gave non-obvious psionic abilities advantage on "subtle spell". Kinda works...kinda cumbersome...

"WE" want psionics to have an advantage in casting, but not totally overwhelming. And we need that flavor to be part of the reason psionics is persecuted (mind flayers, aboleths, etc, are another reason...).

 

[Corinnguard]

Would Detect Thoughts have a visible display?

Probably not, but what about an acoustical one?

 

[SkidAce]

There are always a few, even though what Paizo did was really good.

It’s always the same old people who complain though. The majority of 5e players are too young to have any preconceptions - although they might ask what the point is.

Anecdotal is anecdotal of course....

The noob group we just formed who had never played any DnD had a difference in expectations for magic versus psionics based on modern anime and movies. THey literally asked "Why do I need material components* for my mind powers".


*they had been exposed to sympathetic magic ideas from wicca and literature.

 

[SkidAce]

What Pathfinder did wouldn’t really work for Dark Sun, but would be a great fit for Ravenloft.

....

Yeah, that Occultist stuff is good.

 

[Corinnguard]

Yeah, that Occultist stuff is good.

I wonder if PF1's Kineticist would work for Dark Sun.

 

[SkidAce]

5e has pretty much already established, through the GOO warlock and Aberrant Mind Sorc, that 5e psionics gets its power from the Far Realm. I.e it’s not “internal” magic. That’s your headcanon, nothing more.

Depends on where you look, one example from SCAG

 

[CreamCloud0]

I have consistently said that I have no problem with psionics being an internal magic(so it fits in with other magic) that has no V, S, or M.

personally i don't want psionics to 'fit in' with the rest of the magic system, both thematically and to prevent any sorts of sorlock-esc buildcraft shenanigans, i describe it as 'power that is created in the absence of magic' so it doesn't end up lumped in and implemented as just 'mind magic'

 

[Maxperson]

personally i don't want psionics to 'fit in' with the rest of the magic system, both thematically and to prevent any sorts of sorlock-esc buildcraft shenanigans, i describe it as 'power that is created in the absence of magic' so it doesn't end up lumped in and implemented as just 'mind magic'

When I say "fit in," I mean so that dispel magic, counterspell, magic resistance, etc. will interact with it. Psionics becomes a serious balance issue if those don't work.

 

[TwoSix]

When I say "fit in," I mean so that dispel magic, counterspell, magic resistance, etc. will interact with it. Psionics becomes a serious balance issue if those don't work.

Does it, though? I mean, the new MM has introduced a bunch of new enemies with uncounterable "spells", so it wouldn't be a new and novel thing. It would shine against certain classes of magic-resistant enemies, sure, but plenty of PC classes have stronger matchups against certain families of enemies.

As long as the psion isn't overly tanky, or has a full suite of wizard-like versatility, I don't see the problem with it having an advantage against certain classes of encounters.

 

[CreamCloud0]

When I say "fit in," I mean so that dispel magic, counterspell, magic resistance, etc. will interact with it. Psionics becomes a serious balance issue if those don't work.

magic resistance i agree with but for my limited knowledge of how it works doesn't really require psionics to be integrated into the casting system does it? just include psionic effects as something it resists, counterspell i don't, dispel magic i would rather any ongoing effects be dependent on the psion maintaining concentration so the solution would be to attack them directly rather than dispelling.