D&D General So… psionic powers are no longer purely mental?

[Maxperson]

Does it, though? I mean, the new MM has introduced a bunch of new enemies with uncounterable "spells", so it wouldn't be a new and novel thing. It would shine against certain classes of magic-resistant enemies, sure, but plenty of PC classes have stronger matchups against certain families of enemies.

As long as the psion isn't overly tanky, or has a full suite of wizard-like versatility, I don't see the problem with it having an advantage against certain classes of encounters.

Yeah, I think so. The game is balanced around player abilities, not monster abilities. So the monster's need to have powers that can't be countered by any PC class, but monsters with counterspell need to be able to counter any PC spell.

 

[Maxperson]

magic resistance i agree with but for my limited knowledge of how it works doesn't really require psionics to be integrated into the casting system does it? just include psionic effects as something it resists, counterspell i don't, dispel magic i would rather any ongoing effects be dependent on the psion maintaining concentration so the solution would be to attack them directly rather than dispelling.

It sort of has to be magic to be affected by magic resistance.

 

[Remathilis]

Did Paizo receive any blowback when they made psionics into another form of magic for Pathfinder? curious

At the time, a really good 3pp company (I forget the name) had done a revised 3.5 psionics system for PF. So while there was fans who disliked Paizo opted to "make psionics magic", there was a well heeled alternative most fans were already using.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah, I think so. The game is balanced around player abilities, not monster abilities. So the monster's need to have powers that can't be countered by any PC class, but monsters with counterspell need to be able to counter any PC spell.

I'm just not seeing the weight of the need here.

To me, the goal of class balance is to ensure that a player never feels that their choice is completely overshadowed by another option, such that they made the "wrong" choice by not picking a different option. But there's also an expectation that each class, and the abilities provided, will all have their occasional chance to shine, and prove more effective than normal for certain encounters. Sometimes your choice shines, and other times it's in the background.

I don't see anything about psionic powers being uniquely unable to be counterspelled or dispelled or not suffering disadvantage against magic-resistant enemies that does more than give them a particular niche to shine. It doesn't take away from the versatility of wizards, or the raw power of sorcerers, of the distinct social niche of bards.

 

[TwoSix]

At the time, a really good 3pp company (I forget the name) had done a revised 3.5 psionics system for PF. So while there was fans who disliked Paizo opted to "make psionics magic", there was a well heeled alternative most fans were already using.

Dreamscarred Press.

 

[Remathilis]

We have an idea what D&D magic is, and unlike psionics it’s remained somewhat consistent across editions - and we can even point at a specific literary source.

And we have thousands of years of tradition and folklore that we can draw inspiration from for magic, whereas psionics was invented about 60 years ago.

Well, we kinda have an idea of what D&D magic is, except for all the times it's changed. Long ago, all arcane magic came from studying spell books, required specific material components, and each casting of a spell required a dedicated spell slot. The sorcerer fundamentally changed the nature of arcane magic in D&D. 4e changed it further. By the time of 5e, you have the majority of arcane magic not needing a spell book, slots are used to cast any spells prepared, wands and implements replace guanno and beeswax, and spells scale with slot level, not caster level. (Exception is cantrips, which itself is a major change in magic). I guess fireball is still fireball, but even spell effects (such as magic missile being auto hit) have changed at various times.

Granted there's a stronger through line than psionics, but if you go from Basic -> 5e, magic had changed quite a bit over the years.

 

[Remathilis]

Dreamscarred Press.

Thank you, I thought it was them, but I wasn't sure.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I wonder if PF1's Kineticist would work for Dark Sun.

It’s fairly flexible in how you fluff it, it would work for a Carrie style telekinetic.

 

[Corinnguard]

It’s fairly flexible in how you fluff it, it would work for a Carrie style telekinetic.

If not PF1's Kineticist, then there is the Elementalist class from Purple Martin Games for Level Up. A 5e version of the Kineticist class.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm just not seeing the weight of the need here.

Insofar as nothing is truly needed, you are correct. However, the game is balanced with the monsters weighed against class abilities, which would include psionics. If psionics weren't able to be countered, dispelled, etc., WotC would balance the class another way to keep it in line with their other classes.

To me, the goal of class balance is to ensure that a player never feels that their choice is completely overshadowed by another option, such that they made the "wrong" choice by not picking a different option. But there's also an expectation that each class, and the abilities provided, will all have their occasional chance to shine, and prove more effective than normal for certain encounters. Sometimes your choice shines, and other times it's in the background.

That's a good definition of balance, but it's not the one WotC uses in 5e. A psion could easily shine in other ways while still preserving the balance as set forth by WotC.

I don't see anything about psionic powers being uniquely unable to be counterspelled or dispelled or not suffering disadvantage against magic-resistant enemies that does more than give them a particular niche to shine. It doesn't take away from the versatility of wizards, or the raw power of sorcerers, of the distinct social niche of bards.

I do think the imbalance that would be created would be relatively minor. If a DM wanted to exclude psionics from being countered, dispelled, etc., I'd be down with that.