So. 3E/3.5E, is it still D&D to you?

[Psion]

Nice one, Firelance. You do the filk (with lots of appropriate references) and keep the rhythm, which is more than most would be filksters accompllish!

 

[Li Shenron]

With the notable exception of Half-Orc Monks, 3rd edition has the same D&D feeling as before, only with better rules.

• Elves are weaker. They look like they got wacked upside the head, which is a shame, but they are weaker.

[/list]

To sad elves-lovers, you can always say that usually only the best humans become PCs in this world, and only the worst elves becomes PCs in this world.

 

[davewoodrum]

It is a different D&D... BUT, it is the D&D that I've always wanted. The lack of flexibility with character creation/advancement, etc. is what caused me to wander away from D&D for awhile. I strongly prefer 3.0/3.5 to 2.0 and feel that it is everything that I wished for back in the original AD&D days....

 

[diaglo]

OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

 

[rogueattorney]

IMHO: To me it's like ordering Coke and getting a diet Pepsi. Yes, it's an analogous game, but the flavor is very different, and it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. It's not what I'm used to expecting when I play. I should note that I have played 1ed, 2ed, and 3.Xed with a small subset of the same group of players AND GMs.

The main differences that cause my reaction are:
1) Combat that is more tactical and slower than previous editions. Fixed individual initiative vs. random group initiative has really altered our combats.
2) The social skills. I absolutely hate the fact that now instead of role playing a situation, we now have roll playing. Everything must be resolved by dice rolling.
3) Too many rules, too restrictive, too few skill points. With all the rules, I actually feel like my characters can do less. If it's not on the character sheet or you don't have skill points in it, you can't do it. The attempt to cover everything with a feat or a skill reduced your options. This narrowed the characters too me.
4) Some spells and items have been nerfed beyond any "balance" issues.

I can't say it any better than Milotha did.

The only thing I'd add is that the 3e player creation is just abyssmally slow for me. I don't want to spend any more than 10-15 minutes making a character. All night character creation sessions kill me, and is the #1 sure fire way to turn me off of a rpg game, D&D or otherwise.

R.A.

 

[The_Gneech]

So ... much ... to ... reply to!

"No, 3e isn't D&D...because I actually like 3e".

Exactly my first thought! Actually, I should mitigate it a bit: 3.x is like the good parts of D&D without the arbitrary and often nonsensical rules. ("The tavern bursts into flame -- save vs. petrification to avoid dying instantly." "Why petrification?" "Shut up and roll, that's why!" "But shouldn't it be save vs. breath weapon?") And so much the better is that I never have to consult a die matrix again!

It is a different D&D... BUT, it is the D&D that I've always wanted. The lack of flexibility with character creation/advancement, etc. is what caused me to wander away from D&D for awhile. I strongly prefer 3.0/3.5 to 2.0 and feel that it is everything that I wished for back in the original AD&D days....

What he said.

Then an epiphany hit. What I realized is that I had burnt out on my players. My players don't know how to plan basic tactics. They don't know their characters or their abilities. It seems they are incapable of learning the rules. My frustration know no limit.

Wow, do I feel your pain! ("Which die do I roll for a Spot check? Okay. Which die do I roll for a saving throw? Okay. Which die do I roll for initiative?")

It's Still D&D To Me
(with apologies to Billy Joel)

Bwaahahahahahaa! *applauds*

-The Gneech

 

[Henry]

Considering I was just listening to that Billy Joel song yesterday, that's one of the greatest filks I've ever read.


also...

Ladies and Gentlemen, taking bets to Diaglo's time till posting, place your bets here, window's open till 5:15...

OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

*Henry tears up his ticket with a scowl, looks over crowd*

All right, who came closest to 18 hours, 36 minutes?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

It's Still D&D To Me
(with apologies to Billy Joel)

Heh, heh, heh! I started doing the same thing when I saw the title, but you beat me to it, and changed the lyics less. (And I was only to the first verse in my head anyways...)

I am of the 'Similar, but different' club, again with the outright statement that the game is better, not worse for the changes.

The Auld Grump

 

[d4]

The only thing I'd add is that the 3e player creation is just abyssmally slow for me. I don't want to spend any more than 10-15 minutes making a character. All night character creation sessions kill me, and is the #1 sure fire way to turn me off of a rpg game, D&D or otherwise.

wow, i can't say that's been my experience at all.

just the other night, i was working on some NPCs for an upcoming campaign. i finished 36 of them (of various levels from 1 to 6) in less than 2 hours, and that includes writing them up in MS-Word and then transferring them over to hand-coded HTML pages. on average, that comes out to a little over 3 minutes per character.

as long as i have an idea before i start, character creation is very swift for me in d20. even high-level (10th+) characters i can stat out in under 10 minutes.

of course, this is just the time for the game-mechanical part of character creation, which is what i assume you are talking about, because crafting ideas and backgrounds and what-not is going to take the same amount of time regardless of system.

 

[diaglo]

*Henry tears up his ticket with a scowl, looks over crowd*

All right, who came closest to 18 hours, 36 minutes?

i had a class yesterday. so i missed it until today.

yes, the Government sends its employees to class. they want me to have a VISA card to order stuff.