D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

[GMforPowergamers]

It is about you. Your anger issues are becoming a problem here. I need you to consider ways of participating in the boards without becoming upset in every conversation and taking everything personally. It's starting to affect the boards overall. I'm trying to be nice here, man, but we need to address this.

Ok so I guess we can talk about me then... Where should we start? I'm 35 years old and been gaming for the last 20 (well 19ish) years. I have been getting more and more angry as the last 10ish years have gone by. I find that a lot of people ignore what I say and instead argue talking points and try to score points. I have repeatedly asked to be listened to and then be told I don't count. I feel very much like half of the discussions turn into arguments even when I try to go for compromise and logical agreements. If you have some insight I will listen.

I do find it funny though that you think me alone is affecting the board when I so often feel that It is part of the board (not even the whole thing) affecting me...

I used to come here daily now I go weeks without being here...

 

[Perram]

What Paizo did for the entire industry was huge, not just what they did for themselves. They proved that, for awhile at least, you could out D&D the official D&D. That whatever WotC chose to do wasn't law. That we could CHOOSE what games to play and what games to write. That there was no impossible challenge.

And now the industry is flooded with well received games. Not just Pathfinder.

4e failing is one of the best things that could have happened to the RPG industry, in my opinion.

And GMforPowergamers: You made a hostile statement and are surprised people took it as hostile. You admit you're angry more and more lately. And your most emotional call out was to an argument at a con making your friend cry. Your arguments keep shifting even if you don't realize it, and I think its clear that this issue is beyond rational discussion with you when you have such an emotional dedication against Paizo and Pathfinder.

We do not have to guess what happened. The entire transition from 3.x to 4e and the rise of Pathfinder has been well documented. And the motives you ascribe and the events you assert just did not happen. We can prove otherwise. (And I'm one of the people who has done a massive share of that documenting! Morrus is another! I can link you to interviews and recordings going back to the dawn of Pathfinder.)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

4e failing is one of the best things that could have happened to the RPG industry, in my opinion.

yup... be careful, that could easily get spun into "You don't like choices"

And GMforPowergamers: You made a hostile statement and are surprised people took it as hostile.

no, I coached my statement in what I want in a perfect world... witch atleast in my mind implies MY perfect world. I am supprised people are trying to prove my own opionon is wrong in such a way that is impossible... aka opionons are not right or wrong, but then when I show evidence of any harm it is swept away or disregarded... You can't have it both ways you can't want to discuse my opionon AND not want me to defend my opionon.

You admit you're angry more and more lately. And your most emotional call out was to an argument at a con making your friend cry.

yes, when at line in mcdonalds when talking about a game we were going to next and were put apon to be told we were not really playing D&D it was the worst moment at any con I have ever been to...

Your arguments keep shifting even if you don't realize it,

then how about we not argue, just acknowledge my thoughts and experiences without trying to down play them or ignore them...

and I think its clear that this issue is beyond rational discussion with you when you have such an emotional dedication against Paizo and Pathfinder.

yup, I'm so emotional dedicated to going against a company I buy stuff from (well it's a card game not an RPG but what ever) and also one that I when I made up my list of 5e wants back during the playtest even used as an example (I like there skill system, and there magus and alchemist all be it the last needs some tweeks). I disliked the ogl, and when people discuss it I bring up my dislike. When people talk about a 5e OGL I express the fact that I hope there isn't one...

My problem with the OGL isn't just pathfinder, or just the lack of new systems for years, or the boon of poorly created items... it is a mix of all of them.

We do not have to guess what happened. The entire transition from 3.x to 4e and the rise of Pathfinder has been well documented. And the motives you ascribe and the events you assert just did not happen. We can prove otherwise. (And I'm one of the people who has done a massive share of that documenting! Morrus is another! I can link you to interviews and recordings going back to the dawn of Pathfinder.)

ok, so when I say that I don't care what they were trying to do (broken down to it's most basic is make money... or just keep there jobs, I mean really that one is about it for whys) I care about the affect. I care about the affect it had on my group and others...

 

[Shasarak]

Every edition has it's warriors, and I have lived through 2e becoming 2e+options both of them going into 3e (witch in my mind is the biggest change in any edtion) and 3e going to 3.5 and 3.5 going to 4e, and 4e going to 5e. so why did piazo v wotc become the one that was the loudest???

I think that it was the loudest because it was the first time that a new edition was not an improvement over the previous edition.

And that is really the beauty of the OGL, it forces you to make improvements to your game.

 

[Morrus]

yes, when at line in mcdonalds when talking about a game we were going to next and were put apon to be told we were not really playing D&D it was the worst moment at any con I have ever been to...

I'm sorry you met some jerks. I really am. Jerks suck. But let's be clear: that is the fault of the jerks. It is not the fault of the OGL or Paizo. People are responsible for their own behaviour. I feel that it's important that you come to terms with this fact before you explode on these boards and say something you can't take back.

Your unfortunate avalanche of aggressive social encounters both in real life and on these forums are not Paizo's fault. Cons, forums, McDonalds, your local game group. The fault lies with those who are part of that encounter.

That's OK. But you have to stop getting upset and angry in every thread that mentions the OGL. I think you need to avoid those threads for your own sake, as well as everyone else's

 

[Jester David]

And now the industry is flooded with well received games. Not just Pathfinder.

4e failing is one of the best things that could have happened to the RPG industry, in my opinion.

It's certainly been a banner few years for non-D&D.
Dresden/FATE, Star Wars, Fiasco, Numenera/ the Strange, Trail of Cthulhu, Phoenix: Dawn Command and so many others. Plus the D&D clones like Lamentations of the Flame Princess, 13th Age, and Shadow of the Demon Lord. Not having the D&D stranglehold on wallets has opened up purchases in 2012 through 2014. And with fewer D&D releases this year and beyond there's still room for lots of other games. So many people have new favourites.

yes, when at line in mcdonalds when talking about a game we were going to next and were put apon to be told we were not really playing D&D it was the worst moment at any con I have ever been to...

Which Con and what year, might I ask?
(Of course, the realist in me thinks that even without the OGL/Pathfinder those jerks would have said the exact same thing, only been carrying older 3.5e books.)

 

[Nellisir]

I do find it funny though that you think me alone is affecting the board when I so often feel that It is part of the board (not even the whole thing) affecting me...

OK. Serious talk time.

You control your responses.

I'm going to repeat that.

YOU control YOUR responses.

WotC does not control your responses. Paizo does not control your responses. This board does not control your responses.

If you are feeling angry or upset, it is your responsibility to figure out why you are feeling that way and take steps to mitigate it.

Similarly, "Paizo shouldn't make Pathfinder because Pathfinder made people hostile towards me or my friends" is not a rational, responsible, argument. Paizo does not control fanboy responses, Paizo does not control the internet, Paizo did not insult your game or your friends or make anyone else do so. If someone insults you, you can walk away. You can punch them. You can laugh. You can call the cops. Those are YOUR choices to make. The one thing you cannot do is say that someone "forced" you to be unhappy or angry or upset. You might be any of those things, but That. Is. On. You.

It is possible that you cannot control your responses to certain stimuli. It happens. It's happened to all of us. I've gotten warned by mods to shut up and knock it off, because it took that sort of reminder to make me exert control, but I am and was responsible for everything I said and did. No troll ever once forced me to respond. If that's the case with you, I suggest taking some time to cool off, and ask yourself if you really want to be at the mercy of everyone around you, because that's the path you're headed down. If other people are responsible for your unhappiness, then other people are responsible for your happiness too, and that's a bad place to be in.

 

[Nylanfs]

Or if could have been carrying AD&D books

 

[Lalato]

Well that escalated quickly

 

[Jester David]

I was pretty pissed off by the 4e switch. I didn't like the symmetry of the classes, the changes to the lore, and general shift in the tone of the game from strategic play to tactical play.
I felt personally betrayed by WotC. Which was, of course, crazy. I'm not a happy person by nature, being a cynical opinionated jerk. At the best of times, for a company I like I'm their cynical opinionated jerk. So I was a cranky near troll on the message board for months, and said a whole lot of jerky things. And people were jerks to me in return. There was a lot of animosity to go around, and the Wizards of the Coast community was a melting pot of it.

And after a few months - the better part of a year - I cooled off and wished I could take back 90% of what I'd said. I let go of the anger because it was never worth it. It wasn't personal. The D&D team was a bunch of people trying their best to do right by their fans and a game they loved. The fans were just defending something they loved. None of it was worth the anger.

I can still be a cynical opinionated jerk that's a little too quick with the snark. But I seldom regret what I say here. I might regret how and wish I'd been diplomatic, but it's rare for me to regret entire posts of the content of months of posting. Y'know, excluding the heated words during the Damage on a Miss fiasco. My bad.