So a player presents a character with really high ability scores--what do you do?

[TheAuldGrump]

Why is this being rude? Arcady is simply stating his opinion that it's foolish not to use the point buy method.

As for the original post, like most people stated there's nothing wrong with those scores. As a DM do you always randomly generate the ability scores of your NPC's, if so, are you just jealous?

Calling somebody a fool is rude. (Yes, foolish means acting like a fool.)

As for the original question: If the dice are rolled in front of me I let them play the character.

If they weren't I say: 'Hey those are great scores! Who's game are you playing it in?' because it won't be mine. (Even if they were terrible rolls, I'd want to see the dice.)

Point buy is good for convention games and NPCs, otherwise I ignore it, not all characters are created equal.

The Auld Grump

 

[pogre]

just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried doing random stats via a draft? Like rolling 4d6/3d6 six times for every player and then doing round robin or something. That would be kind of interesting... hmmm...

Wulf Ratbane had an interesting method of character generation wherein players would trade and bargain for +2 attribute scores to create their characters.

I am doing something sort of similar this campaign, using character advancement cards - much like the RPGA Legacy of the Green Regent Campaign cards. Each player will be dealt cards and they will trade cards amongst themselves to create the PCs they wish.

I like BiggusGeekus's solution of a "growing" magic item inherited for lower stat PCs. It's the only useable solution I have seen without telling the player to scrap the stats. Where you are at now John, I would just let them play the character and call it a lesson learned.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Anyway,

I'd like to avoid simply 'proscribing' a method of character creation, something liek point-buy or whatever. But if a Cheracter's ability scores seem out of line (say, none under 12 and about 3 15 or better), what's the best way to handle it

Why exactly do those stats seem "out of line" to you? How do you expect this PC's stats to negatively impact your game? Do you feel the PC in question will overshadow the other PC's?

I don't see the cause for concern. I play in campaigns where the stats you mention are average. I personally feel they better simulate fantasy heroes, and yet they have no effect on my or my players enjoyment of the game. I don't think you should worry about it too much.

 

[GravyFingerz]

I think the real question is: what would Hong do in a case like this?

In my opinion, he would probably make a reference to how badass his archer named Talath is and then end the post with his trademark Hong "something something something blah blah" Ooi

Did that answer your question?

 

[Whitey]

Assuming these stats are all legit, I would say .. congratulations.
This player rolled hot, and luck is part of any game where there's dice involved. Sooner or later, all those d6s average out to 3.5 apiece.
I would guess everyone on this board has been in on nights where the dice jump up like crazy, and with d20's in-combat rule where 1 is automatically a fan and 20 a ding on just about anything, this makes a real difference. If it's really causing party despair and party disparity, just remember

the SRD here under 'Improving Monsters'

Monsters are assumed to have completely average (or standard) ability scores-a 10 or an 11 in each ability, as modified by their racial bonuses. However, improved monsters are individuals and often have better than normal ability scores, and usually make use of either the elite array or the nonelite array of ability scores. Monsters who improve by adding a template, and monsters who improve by increasing their Hit Dice, may use any of the three arrays (standard, nonelite, or elite). Any monster unique enough to be improved could easily be considered elite.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander - or cockatrice.

 

[Elric]

The quick and easy answer is the one that's been given: use pointbuy.

The second answer is have the players roll the dice in front of you.

The rest of the answer is that, if you insist on allowing players to roll dice to generate characters out of session where you can't see them, you will have problems with balance. (And don't buy those people who claim that stats don't matter to balance; in my experience, 36 point buy stats are roughly equivalent to a +1.5 ECL race when compared to 25-28 point buy characters; a 20 point difference would be like letting one player play a drow and stay the same level as the party full of half-elves (with a half-orc wizard)).

I don't think that stats are that powerful, at least if we are thinking of the same thing. For example, compare the "almost-elite" array (8,9,10,11,12,13), 15 points, to the elite array, (8,10,12,13,14,15), 25 points. Most standard creatures like Orc Warrior 2s, iirc, use the almost-elite array. However, a slightly more powerful creature like an Orc Barbarian 2 will use the elite array.

If stats were worth 1.5 ECL, then the CR 2 Orc Barbarian 2 would be at most CR 1 with the “almost-elite” array. But of course the Barb 2 is definitely stronger than a Warrior 2. Alternatively, the CR system is broken

 

[Ace]

Anyway,

I'd like to avoid simply 'proscribing' a method of character creation, something liek point-buy or whatever. But if a Cheracter's ability scores seem out of line (say, none under 12 and about 3 15 or better), what's the best way to handle it

Thats out of line ?!!!

That a reasonable average set of stas IMC-- OK 3 max scores in out of line but 3@15+ is not bad

If you are worried about high stats I would suggest just telling the players what is expected, what is to low and what is to high and let them make whatever they like

My players give me better characters when they don't have to fight the system to get what the character needs

Otherwise just go with point buy-- 32 is what I recomend but in your case you might try 28-30

Another option is to use the standard array +1d4 full points. I think the characters produced are medoicre but YMMV

 

[johnsemlak]

Just to clarify a few things--

The PC was developed by the player at home. While I sort of like the 'Create the character in front of the DM' idea, I asked everyone to do it at home for time-saving purposes.

The player in question created the character (he enjoys character creation) before I could send out my guidelines on creation.

As I said originally, I don't want to go with point-buy, tough I do see logic in it. I just feel it doesn't fit my current group.

I do not regard the player's stats as that over-powered, just a tad. I expect high-powered characters. I may actually end up leaving it, I need to take a second look.

Thanks for the sugesstions so far, I think I'll go with BiggusGeekus' idea of figuring out how 'powered' the character is, and make sure he's not too much more powerful than the rest. I'll make adjustments to the PCs' scores as necessary.

 

[Steverooo]

I'd say just let the Player play what he rolled, and don't sweat it. In the future, if you want a "balanced" party, tell the Players that they could roll, if they wanted to, or just accept your default array: 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, & 13, arranged as desired, and modified for race... Most will take the default, and your party is balanced!

Need to balance an already-existing party? Pre-plan your treasures!

An item usable only by a certain race, class, sex, or alignment (or group of alignments) chops 30% off the price. So if your "Super-powered" Human Fighter is male and NG, and is overpowering your LG Human Paladin male and his male NG Elven Ranger buddy, you can add a masterwork bow that functions as +2 only for Good Elven Rangers, for example, and instead of it being worth 8,000 GP, it will be worth 800, because only the Ranger can use it.

Likewise, wands will go to whoever can use them, scimitars almost always to a Druid, maces to Clerics, etc. While Uber-Fighter might want the bow, scimitar, or mace, the fact that it acts as only Masterwork, for him, will pretty much assure that the PC who "needs" the boost will get it.

Of course, this looks contrived (Duh!)... The easiest way to work it in is to have a friendly NPC (Wizard, Bard, or Sorcerer works best) inform the appropriate PC as to the existance of the item, give it a history, and give the PCs some idea(s) as to its possible whereabouts. Then they can "quest" to gain something only usable by them.

While the GM can throw in wands, scimitars, maces, etc. at any point, the other items usable only by a few should either be introduced as legend, or in the hands of allies or enemies.

Two examples: A Druid's Staff is usable only by Male Druids of Neutral alignment... Note that Neutral allows NE and NG, as well... So a NE Gnoll Druid could wield it against the party, and once it is killed, another Male Druid (all of whom are Neutral) could take it over... Or, it could be sold as a MW item... Or, it could be traded to another Druid for curing, etc...

A magical Hand-Crossbow usable only by an Evil Drow Priestess, on the other hand, will be wielded against the party, and generally be useless to them. While it will radiate evil Abjuration magic, they won't be able to get it to do anything, and won't even be able to sell it for much more than a MW Hand-Crossbow.

As a third example, if the Paladin and his master/trainer are both LG Human Paladins, the master could easily be killed, die of old age, be slain in battle while the PC is absent, or just retire, leaving the sword to his protege'... who is one of the few people who can actually USE it!

This also solves the problem of PCs looting the bodies of other PCs, or stealing from their own party... Items of this sort will not generally be usable by the other PCs!

In your case, the 10% pricetag can also be used to balance the party, assuming your PCs figure out what the items can do. If you really MUST balance that +4 STR Bonus, you can give a +2 sword usable only by a Good (Race, Class), and usually only one PC in the party will be able to use it. Now your Good (Race, Class) with +2 STR has the same To-Hit with this sword as your Uber-Fighter with his +4 STR and ordinary weapon.

The easiest way to display this to the PCs is to describe the item found as masterwork, and otherwise normal. If they detect magic, it will radiate as usual, but (again) do nothing... When the PC who meets the three restrictions picks it up, though, it will suddenly glow, as magic weapons often do... This is a pretty clear indication that only that PC can use it. Later visits to a higher-level Wizard or Bard can confirm this...

Well, there're a couple of ways to "solve" your "problem", if any of them seem good to you...

 

[MerricB]

I was once using the "high-powered" method of rolling stats (5d6, drop lowest 2), and saw one of my players roll up the following stats: 18, 18, 18, 17, 15, 13. I kid you not, those were his stats.

Incredible. Unfortunately, the character died in his first session, underestimating exactly how tough Zombies were and (foolishly) not retreating.

Good stats do not imply that the character will survive.

Cheers!