D&D 5E so... any word on PDFs yet?

[evilbob]

I don't see how continuing to do roughly the same thing they always do can be surprising.

Umbran, we don't always see eye to eye, but you are literally arguing with me over whether or not I can be surprised about something. Just wanted to point that out. I'm sure you'll disagree.

The catch is, WotC is a CCG company... So all the upper management and likely most of the middle and lower management thinks CCG business.

If there is such a thing, I would be surprised if they cared about D&D books over the Cash Cow that M:tG is.

An astute gentleman once pointed out that D&D - for all that we love and think and talk about it - is basically a rounding error on the balance sheets of WotC. To say that it is not their focus is like saying heating a gnat is not the focus of the sun.

WotC isn't afraid of piracy. It's very, very comfortable with and competent at large scale digital content in PDF format, has had great success with it, and has been for a long time now.

The only aberration in this otherwise consistent pattern for the last half decade is 5E.

And that's about a belief that such things would undercut current physical sales. I believe they're wrong about that, but that's the reason; piracy doesn't come into it. Pressure from retailers and distributors is likely a much larger factor, neither of whom have traditionally embraced the idea of non brick & mortar sales. Hell, they're not keen when you simply sell your physical wares online, let alone digital versions of it!

That's also why DungeonScape was pulled, according to Trapdoor staff who posted as such here before editing out the post!

Thank you for that information. It does make sense that they would want to be as retail-friendly as possible, especially to the group that hawks their cards. I guess my original post was more along the lines of: after 7 months, are they really still afraid of cannibalizing retail sales? If the answer is yes, well: then there's the answer. And the idea that we will never see a PDF becomes a whole lot more likely. And given that it's been 7 months... I'm also leaning toward the answer being yes.

 

[SkidAce]

And that's about a belief that such things would undercut current physical sales. I believe they're wrong about that, but that's the reason; piracy doesn't come into it. Pressure from retailers and distributors is likely a much larger factor, neither of whom have traditionally embraced the idea of non brick & mortar sales. Hell, they're not keen when you simply sell your physical wares online, let alone digital versions of it!

That's also why DungeonScape was pulled, according to Trapdoor staff who posted as such here before editing out the post!

I missed that. Interesting.

 

[SkidAce]

In any case, they are not serving their customers by holding back on both an OGL and PDFs and some people will throw up their hands and walk away because of it, and others will feel justified to pirate books because of it. Even if those people represent a tiny minority, it is still a loss because *not* having an OGL or PDFs isn't going to draw any new customers who would not otherwise have appeared.

Of course there are the group of people who stay with the game, and recruit others, using the game as is. Even though they might prefer to have a PDF or OGL, it doesn't cause them to bail, and still enlarges the hobby.

 

[bmfrosty]

An astute gentleman once pointed out that D&D - for all that we love and think and talk about it - is basically a rounding error on the balance sheets of WotC. To say that it is not their focus is like saying heating a gnat is not the focus of the sun.

This is what a lot of people forget. To Hasbro, D&D is only really worth it's brand recognition. Anything they do with it is long game to grow the brand.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Of course there are the group of people who stay with the game, and recruit others, using the game as is. Even though they might prefer to have a PDF or OGL, it doesn't cause them to bail, and still enlarges the hobby.

Yup. I suspect the number of players who would cut off their nose to spite their face when it comes to D&D... refuse to play the game even if they enjoy it just because they have to buy a book rather than a PDF... to be smaller than those who fall into that category want to admit.

I think most people who enjoy 5E, and wish to play 5E, will play 5E even if they have to carry around a Player's Handbook as well as their tablet. Or at the barest minimum, just not buy a Player's Handbook at all and then borrow someone else's at the table when it comes time to level up. But they're still going to play the game because they want to play the game.

 

[Sailor Moon]

PDFs are unlikely. The WotC higher-ups are likely too worried of piracy to risk PDFs. They're probably trying for an app style experience where the rules are in a digital form that can't be copied.

The funny thing is you can already get pirated PDF'S of all the books.

 

[Reynard]

Of course there are the group of people who stay with the game, and recruit others, using the game as is. Even though they might prefer to have a PDF or OGL, it doesn't cause them to bail, and still enlarges the hobby.

I think you missed my point. Of course people are going to stay, but no one is going to come on board *due to* the lack of PDFs and OGL, and some small number will either leave or not become customers in the first place because of that. So, any way you slice it, it is still a loss, however small. Now, one could say it is small enough that it isn't worth the cost to WotC but that seems unlikely given that WotC has deigned it worth the effort to sell PDFs of defunct edition materials, and those must have an associated production cost as well.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Now, one could say it is small enough that it isn't worth the cost to WotC but that seems unlikely given that WotC has deigned it worth the effort to sell PDFs of defunct edition materials, and those must have an associated production cost as well.

You must realize it's not the production cost of making the PDF that is the issue here, right? The fact that they sell PDFs of products that are no longer published has nothing to do with their decision to sell or not sell PDFs of books that are.

 

[SkidAce]

Good discussion.
[MENTION=467]Reynard[/MENTION], I didn't miss your point, I feel the loss of folks due to no PDF is likely offset by the recruiting that those who like the game are willing to do.

We have taught three new people in the last four months. No PDF or OGL.


Of course we have no way of knowing whether the impact you speak of (which seems valid) or my thoughts, are greater or lesser on the hobby as a whole.

I personally feel the lack of PDFs/OGL has a smaller impact than the appeal of the game itself. YMMV (as evidenced above).

Thanks for the thoughts!

SkidAce

 

[Jester David]

The funny thing is you can already get pirated PDF'S of all the books.

If you want to get *technical* they're "scanned copies". Since there are no official counterparts, whether or not they're "pirated" depends on the legality of downloading a digital copy of a book you own in your country.

I'm not going to encourage piracy, especially if it comes at the cost of sales of a game I love. Piracy and stealing is bad. But archiving and format shifting are entirely different.
I'd prefer to buy my digital copy though....