D&D 5E So.... hide?

[Sunseeker]

My personal take on it: I'd let them do it once, but once a monster is smacked with the first sneak attack, I'd personally rule that they don't get anymore sneak attack damage until they change locations, say at least 10 feet or so. Hiding behind the fighter is perfectly reasonable. I wouldn't even give disadvantage on the roll. But just because you're behind the fighter and I can't see you doesn't mean I don't know you're there, and I don't know you're about to jump back out and shoot me again. Sneak attack dice represents striking an unsuspecting target from an unknown location. That doesn't cut the mustard for me.

If he wanted to do that and then, roll unseen behind a bush 15 feet away off to the monster's flank, then take a shot from the new (unknown) position, I'd probably allow that. But munchkin-ing the rules so you're just ducking back and forth behind the fighter with a short bow getting sneak attack dice every time? Nope. I wouldn't allow that.

By the rules, they'd still get sneak attack with a bow, even if not hidden as long as an ally was engaging the enemy.

 

[aramis erak]

I can only imagine that this has been covered at length, and if so, maybe someone can provide a link to the answer. Otherwise I'd settle for just a little clarification.

Here's the situation: The PC's meet a monster. They see it. It sees them. They engage.

The party rogue (a halfling) hides behind the fighter, then pops out with his bow, scoring a sneak attack. He uses the remainder of his moves to jump back behind another party member and hide again. Or so he claims.

To me, the rules say (phb 172, I think) that you can't hide from somebody who sees you. Therefor, since the rogue was already seen at the initial meeting between foes, and no distraction has occurred during which the rogue was out of view, he can't just hide.

The player tells me that this stance has been refuted at length on several forums.

So what gives?

Your player is correct.

Lightfoot Halflings CAN hide behind PC's who are medium. Racial feature. (PHB p.28) Once he moves behind the PC, he cannot be seen.

Your cite of page 172 is not correct — it's an illustration — it's page 177 (sidebar)....

To be obscured is to not be visible. So, if there's obscurement, it would require a perception roll to ensure seeing them. Which is already provided for in the stealth rules.

 

[GameOgre]

That is the major reason to play a Halfling rogue. You get to hide behind other pc's!

However.....sneak attack damage isn't dependent on not being seen or having the foe unaware of you if you are fighting in a group. You deal sneak attack damage whenever your rogue attacks a creature that is being engaged with a ally.

House ruling sneak attack damage away (or mostly away) would be like house ruling the fighters extra attacks and second action ability away or house ruling the wizards spells away.

Hey DM! Leave those Rogues alone!


Now cheese mongering around with multi-attacks and multi-sneak attack damage in one round I ain't gonna defend!

 

[transtemporal]

You could impose disadvantage on re-hiding (Mearls says that is what he does) or disallow the re-hide, but the rules do not prevent the hide attempt.

This was an interesting ruling. It implies that once you've discovered a hiding creature, you're less likely to lose them again in the fray. This presumably also applies for PCs who discover hiding opponents.

Kind of a side question regarding hiding, is it possible to move while hiding? The travelling rules seem to imply it is "While traveling at a slow pace, the characters can move stealthily. As long as they’re not in the open, they can try to surprise or sneak by other creatures they encounter. See the rules for hiding in chapter 7."

Or are the heroes not actually hidden? If they aren't, how can they remain unseen?

 

[Dausuul]

The Stealth rules in 5E are a mess and there is no consensus on how they work.

My take on it: Yes, you can hide behind your big fighter buddy, and you take no penalty for doing so. However, Naturally Stealthy does not come with mindwipe powers. The enemy doesn't forget you just because you ducked behind the fighter. In most cases, there is nothing preventing the enemy from walking around the fighter, at which point you are no longer obscured and thus no longer hidden. Naturally Stealthy is a nifty way to avoid being noticed, but its usefulness once you have been noticed is limited.

I should add that it's very easy to Sneak Attack in 5E, so don't bend yourself into pretzels trying to prevent this one way of achieving it. One way or another, the rogue is going to get to Sneak Attack almost every round, and that's how it's supposed to be; SA is how rogues remain relevant in combat.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I can only imagine that this has been covered at length, and if so, maybe someone can provide a link to the answer. Otherwise I'd settle for just a little clarification.

Here's the situation: The PC's meet a monster. They see it. It sees them. They engage.

The party rogue (a halfling) hides behind the fighter, then pops out with his bow, scoring a sneak attack. He uses the remainder of his moves to jump back behind another party member and hide again. Or so he claims.

To me, the rules say (phb 172, I think) that you can't hide from somebody who sees you. Therefor, since the rogue was already seen at the initial meeting between foes, and no distraction has occurred during which the rogue was out of view, he can't just hide.

The player tells me that this stance has been refuted at length on several forums.

So what gives?

Mike Mearls tweeted it's a judgment call for the DM. He tweeted he would probably allow the attempt, but at disadvantage. You could easily rule once he's been seen, and the enemy is keeping an eye on him, he cannot reattempt to hide, as his location is known.

Personally I loathe the idea of the halfling popping in and out from behind an ally - just far too unrealistic and "computer gamey" to me. I removed that hiding ability from halflings to avoid the argument altogether. Substituted it with the wood elf hiding ability instead.

The hiding rules in 5e are one of it's rare bad points. They are half rules half DM's call, but not very well described as such. They should have gone 13th Age style and said straight up it's the DM's judgment call. Instead, we have a mess of both, which ends up needing to be dealt with in "session zero" - otherwise you can easily end up with a mismatch of understanding and upset players (and/or DMs). At start of a campaign, a DM needs to give an outline of how he/she approaches stealth. I hope a future Unearthed Arcana article deals with stealth and gives us 3 examples of stealth approaches: stealth is easy (eg: halfling ally hide anytime at no disad), stealth is moderate (halfling ally hide if suitable distraction, but at disad) and stealth is hard (no halfling ally hide once combat has begun and enemies are keeping an eye on him).

 

[Jester David]

I really think it was deliberately left open for DMs. Some DMs really feel the player able to vanish from sight and be forgotten by the most insignificant of terrain is awkward and unbelievable. Others are more okay with the more MMO interpretation of stealth pretty much being invisibility.

There's no real way to nail down a rule that satisfies both equally without giving them some freedom.

 

[transtemporal]

From the way some of you talk, you imagine dungeons that look like Raiders of the Lost Ark but behave like featureless white spaces with uniform ambient light that cast no shadows...

 

[Aimian_Silverflash]

I stand corrected, I had to go back and re-read the rules. Sorry, haven't memorized all of 5e yet, lol.

Anyways, so yes RAW, he should definitely get sneak attack dmg. But I'm wondering what the point of re-hiding would be then? Is he trying to get advantage on subsequent attacks as well? If that's the case, see my earlier comment.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

The halfling takes a bow shot. This automatically reveals him. He then takes cover behind a team-mate, who by a very specific rule provides concealment adequate enough to again hide a lightfoot halfling. The halfling then uses a bonus action (per Cunning Action) to Hide again and makes a stealth check.

Why is this process hard to understand? Is it hard to understand that a wizard can create a mote of firey power that obliterates their foes from dozens of feet away? Or that a cleric can raise the dead? Or a ranger can command their beast friend to assist them in battle? No, it's not, because those are all supported by the rules of the game just like that halfling hiding behind his buddy.