D&D 5E So.... hide?

[fjw70]

1) You get to a place the rules say you can hide (out of sight, usually, though other cover works for some special circumstances, like the lightfoot halfling).

2) Use an Action to Hide (roll a Stealth check). Rogues often use their Cunning Action to do this.

3) If your Stealth > your target's Perception (usually passive unless they get actual actions to look for you), then you may attack from a hidden spot with Advantage. In my game this includes popping out from around a corner, just enough to take a quick shot. If you've ever 'sliced the pie' with a weapon, you'll know what I mean.

4) Once you resolve your Attack Action, you are no longer hidden (exception - Skulker, if attack missed). However remaining movement and a Cunning Action to hide may be an option, even after an attack (assuming a rogue shot from a pre-existing hidden spot).

The hidden character is NOT jumping into clear space to take a shot ("TA-DAAAA!"), but shooting with minimal exposure from concealment. Any one who enters an 'open' space in view of a target would lose their hidden status in my game, barring extraordinary circumstances. Their stealth allows them enough margin to get a shot off at an unexpected time or location.

So if the character is hidden behind a tree, leans around the tree and doesn't attack is he still hidden? No. So why does he get an attack from hidden after revealing himself?

Again the DM may allow an attack against a distracted enemy but it is not automatic.

 

[Uller]

So if the character is hidden behind a tree, leans around the tree and doesn't attack is he still hidden? No. So why does he get an attack from hidden after revealing himself?

Did he succeed his stealth check vs any potential observer? If yes, then of course he is still hidden. Have you never hidden from someone and been able to observe them without them knowing?

As I'm typing this, I'm able to see my family playing in the front yard. They don't know I'm sitting here by the window watching them. I am both "hidden" from them and have line of sight. If I were instead sitting in plain view on the front porch (rather than inside a window) they would clearly see me so I would be unable to hide.

 

[fjw70]

I

Did he succeed his stealth check vs any potential observer? If yes, then of course he is still hidden. Have you never hidden from someone and been able to observe them without them knowing?

As I'm typing this, I'm able to see my family playing in the front yard. They don't know I'm sitting here by the window watching them. I am both "hidden" from them and have line of sight. If I were instead sitting in plain view on the front porch (rather than inside a window) they would clearly see me so I would be unable to hide.

Either they cannot see through the window (thus making unseen) or the DM has ruled that they are distracted.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Our 5th level rogue has +10 to her stealth (+3 prof, X2 expertise, +4 dex). Against most foes' passive perception she is all bit guaranteed success even with disadvantage. I can't remember the last time she failed astealth roll. If someone is actively looking or has advantage that's another matter but is pretty rare.

My rogue has similar bonus' and has a Cloak of Elvenkind to boot and still muffs rolls now and again.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I

Either they cannot see through the window (thus making unseen) or the DM has ruled that they are distracted.

Or Uller began his stealth check out of their area of notice (the kitchen) and moved to lightly or heavily obscured location (where he's typing) with a result higher than his family's passive perception.

 

[fjw70]

Or Uller began his stealth check out of their area of notice (the kitchen) and moved to lightly or heavily obscured location (where he's typing) with a result higher than his family's passive perception.

Except only lightly obscured if he is an elf.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Except only lightly obscured if he is an elf.

No, not at all. An wood elf wouldn't of had to of used a Hide action in the kitchen to roll stealth. He could of done it in the shade of a tree in the side yard. As long as either Uller stays out of the open (so in a partially or fully obscured location or cover) his stealth roll holds. Else why have stealth at all if all you do is hide in another room?

 

[fjw70]

No, not at all. An wood elf wouldn't of had to of used a Hide action in the kitchen to roll stealth. He could of done it in the shade of a tree in the side yard. As long as either Uller stays out of the open (so in a partially or fully obscured location or cover) his stealth roll holds. Else why have stealth at all if all you do is hide in another room?

There is no rule that allows you to automatically stay hidden if the enemy can see you if they look in your direction. If I am wrong please cite the rule.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

There is no rule that allows you to automatically stay hidden if the enemy can see you if they look in your direction. If I am wrong please cite the rule.

That's not correct, per p.178 PHB. Once hidden a creature can't see you until either their perception check exceeds your stealth check (they discover you) or you stop hiding. If you emerge from hiding in combat you are usually immediately seen unless the DM determines otherwise. It explicitly uses light and heavy obscuration as a factor in discovering hidden creatures. So LOS != seeing someone.

 

[Uller]

I

Either they cannot see through the window (thus making unseen) or the DM has ruled that they are distracted.

They could see me. Distracted. Which is the point. People read the hide rules and get to the part where it says once you have LOS the hidden character is no longer hidden and stop. I think maybe the way it is written the part about the DM ruling potential observers being distracted is sort of an after thought, when really it is the key to the whole thing.

As Warmaster Horus mentioned the "slicing the pie" technique (wondering if WH has had some CQB training...), situational factors matter. A lot. There is a huge difference between peeking around a corner, waiting until some audible queue indicates your target is busy or looking the other way, peering out a window, etc and completely stepping out from cover, which is exactly what the stealth check represents in this case.

The way we actually decided to run it is that when a character is able to hide and spends an action to "hide" he automatically becomes hidden. Then, whenever something happens that could reveal him, that's when the "hidden" character makes his check and situational factors are considered. So, if Bill the rogue is hiding behind Bob the fighter from the ogre he just put a crossbow bolt into and the Ogre moves up to Bob and then around a bit, I might allow a check at that moment. If the Ogre spends an action he gets to make an opposed role, otherwise if he is just hoping for LOS, it's just passive perception. Since the Ogre knows Bill must be there, he'd probably get advantage. If Bill succeeds, we'd probably rule that he was able to move around Bob to remain unseen (combat isn't static). If there is another observer (say, another ogre) and it is impossible for him to be unseen by both at the same time then he will be spotted...and that's the point...it's all too complicated to make an easy unabusable rule. So it is left vague and up to the DM and players to come up with a sensible ruling in each case.