So, How does the Complete Warrior Swashbuckler play out?

[drnuncheon]

A ftr/rog can be an effective build, I just don't consider it to fight as a swashbuckler.

Fighting as a swashbuckler isn't about BAB, IMO - it's about style. If your wizard is swinging from chandeliers, leaping onto tables, and parrying the weapons of the people surrounding him with his quarterstaff, then he's fighting as a swashbuckler. If the bard is composing a ballad extempore as he fights, you don't get much more swashbuckly than that. (Think Cyrano de Bergerac.) If your rogue pauses to steal a kiss from a lovely lady before leaping off a balcony into the river below just as the city guard comes through the door, he's fighting (er, well, fleeing) like a swashbuckler.

(Again, IMO) It's all about the style, not the numbers.

J

 

[AFGNCAAP]

FYI, a nifty multi-classing combo:

A elven (or half-elven) Swashbucker/Wizard/Bladedancer, armed with a rapier.

A high Int is good for the swashbucker & wizard class abilities; a high Dex is great for AC, saves, & Weapon Finesse with the rapier. Both abilities work great for the Bladedancer, plus at higher levels, the Bladedancer gains the ability to cast spells in light armor with no ASF issues.

Ideally, a Swashbuckler is about style. However, the swashbuckler class gains a few nifty abilities instead of being allowed the usual bonus feats available to a fighter. However, for a lightly-armored, Dex-based fighter, the Medium & Heavy Armor Proficiencies are never used at all--that's 2 feats right there that could be used for something else.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Next campaign I play in I'm trying a swash/duelist.

IIRC, Peform (needed for duelist) is c.c. for swashbuckler. I noticed a few other skill discremptancies. That, and you get acrobatic attack twice.

Depending on the setting and your DM you could take the Cosmopolitan Feat from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and so make Perform a class skill to get by that.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

We have a swashbuckler in our group and so far it has worked out fine he's our noble of the group also which plays out fine together, suggest that you use an Elven Thinblade as your weapon of choice slightly more damage than a rapier.

The Swashbuckler in my group uses a Dueling Rapier from Skull & Bones. If I remember correctly it gives +1 to initiative due to it's longer reach but is -1 to hit. Of course if you buy a Masterwork one the -1 is irrelavant.

 

[Desdichado]

Two points:

Mercule, it seems somewhat disingenious to complain about the effectiveness of the fighter/rogue combo if you're saying your DM has completely nerfed the effectiveness of Sneak Attack. Since that's clearly a core element of that class, of course nerfing it will result in a reduced effectiveness character.

drnuncheon, based on your reasoning, what's the point of classes at all? If being a swashbuckler is about style, there should be a class with mechanics to reinforce that. It's also a bit disingenous to say that a wizard can be a swashbuckler if he swings from chandeliers and parries blows with his quarterstaff. Would you also agree that a wizard could be a ranger if he takes the track feat, ranks in Wilderness Lore and lives out in the woods? The whole point of classes is to reinforce these archetypes; otherwise, why not just use generic classes ala d20 Modern, or no classes at all, for that matter?

 

[tauton_ikhnos]

Swashbuckler builds very nicely with exotic weapons master and a few levels of paladin. Give them the dwarven buckler axe as their exotic weapon (EWM stunts show off, throw exotic weapon, twin exotic weapon fighting), go the two-weapon fighting route.

OR drop EWM and take dervish (for its nifty abilities and to change scimitar to "light weapon"). A dervish with +INT to damage, extra dodge bonuses, etc., can be downright frightening against multiple opponents.

 

[drnuncheon]

drnuncheon, based on your reasoning, what's the point of classes at all? If being a swashbuckler is about style, there should be a class with mechanics to reinforce that.

Check out the dragon issue on swashbucklers - they have an article devoted to how the different classes could fit into a swashbuckling campaign.

My point was mostly aimed at the fellow who immediately cut off anyone who didn't have a BAB equal to their level from being a swashbuckler - I think that's an unnecessarily narrow view of the concept, because I think that a fighter/rogue makes a fine 'swashbuckler'.

J

 

[Klaus]

Try this for a mystical swashbuckler-type:

http://www.fierydragon.com/DB/DB_DEC03_2003.htm

A swashbuckler/wizard can get to this class with almost no difficulty by 6th level.

 

[Desdichado]

Check out the dragon issue on swashbucklers - they have an article devoted to how the different classes could fit into a swashbuckling campaign.

My point was mostly aimed at the fellow who immediately cut off anyone who didn't have a BAB equal to their level from being a swashbuckler - I think that's an unnecessarily narrow view of the concept, because I think that a fighter/rogue makes a fine 'swashbuckler'.

To be sure, and that's a great article, if I remember it correctly (I should reread that whole issue, having just kicked off a campaign with strong swashbuckling influences, for that matter.) But there's a big difference between a campaign with a generic swashbuckling feel and a swashbuckler archetype as a character. The swashbuckler archetype is a master swordsman, the Erroll Flynn, Douglas Fairbanks, Dread Pirate Roberts, etc. character.

 

[boxstop7]

I *LOVE* the swashbuckler class thus far. My last three characters have had at least 3 levels of swashbuckler, and I think it's a great class. Mostly, it's a great class for the reason many have listed before: STYLE. I personally can't stand stock fighters (pure damage machines are just boring), and the swashbuckler changes the fighter class enough that it works mechanically as I'd like it to, and affords me the skill points to really have some fun with the class (although I wish they got 6 skill points per level, rather than 4). The Grace and Lucky abilities are great, and the Acrobatic Charge can really be worked into some cool roleplaying ("I charge him by sliding down the stairway banister right at him!") And at higher levels, the weakening and wounding criticals are great. Throw in a keen elven thinblade of wounding (IMHO, the BEST weapon for this class), and suddenly your swashbuckler IS dealing pretty nice damage (thanks in part to the Int bonus to damage). Conceptually, I just think it's a neat class. Granted, I'm probably extremely biased. Jack up his Dex and give him Celestial armor and the fun just continues! The only downside is that you'll take a hit on the number of feats you have to play around with (it's the same as any other core class but fighter). But I've found that Improved Initiative, Improved Disarm (w/ Combat Expertise, of course) and Combat Reflexes make for a pretty bitchin' character ("Drop. Your. Sword. *foe refuses, so I disarm him* Thank you for cooperating." ) If I could add one thing to the class, I would allow a swashbuckler to take weapon specialization feats in rapier, thinblade, or any finesse-able (sword-like) weapon. Currently, I think it's a bit lacking in the Flynn/Dread Pirate feel. But that's the only real problem I have with the class. All-in-all, if you're looking for a replacement for the melee tank, the swashbuckler isn't it. But if you want to have some real fun with a fighter class, I've thoroughly enoyed it and I'd highly recommend it!

- Jason