So I led a mutiny...

[Tsyr]

So I suppose I should put this in context, not that it will help as the legions of people cry that I should be banned from ever slinging dice again after they read this, but...

I'm mostly a DM anymore. So I relish the few chances at playing I get. There is a DM I play under quite frequently (and so do several of my players), who is a sterotypical 'teen girl' gamer, despite having left her teens behind. IE, all the most powerful NPCs in her world are women, everything seems coated in a layer of glitter, and cats and celestials run rampent.

I'm not trying to be sexist with this; one of my favorite DMs I've ever played under was female, and I've met a number of great female players. She just isn't one of them.

Anyhow, so I was playing under her. One of her *worst* traits is that she's a
"DM's Pet NPC" DM. Always very similar NPCs. Always good to a fault, capable of summoning something celestial, and normally an elf or half elf. We (the players) have *all* expressed at one point or another, to her, that we find this irritating and we really wish she wouldn't do it. She still does it.

So we had been hired to clear out orcs from the forest around a city. Part of our terms of being hired was we had to take this NPC along with us, despite repeated attempts at bargining our way out of it. And, surprise surprise, it was a half elf ranger who somehow summoned a celestial dog.

So we tromped through the forest for a while, had an encounter with the "wise and helpful" centaurs who lead us to the edge or orc territory, and took out a couple of orc patrols.

It's worth pointing out that while her NPC was good to a fault, none of us were. We had a neutral psion, a chaotic neutral cleric (Me, whos religion espoused "humans > dwarves > everyone else > "lesser races" such as orcs"), and a lawful evil monk.

By this point her NPC had been in full form. Cheery, summoning her dog at every moment she could, being a machine in combat, and generaly being a pain in the butt. Turns out she had Favored Enemy Orc.

Then she wants to keep the last orc alive and trade it's freedom for the location of the orc camp.

Now, I realize, thanks to recent changes, favored enemy now no longer implys a dislike of the race you are sworn to master killing, but... come on... She's a half elf. Ranger. In an elven forest. With favored enemy orc.

About this time she called a break and went to get a drink. I jotted down a quick note, something like, "when I wink, follow my lead if you want this to end."

So we find the orc camp. 70+ strong. We're prepping for battle.

I cast enlarge person on the monk, and wink.

We subdue the NPC, tie her up, and give her to the orcs.

When she's dead, we kill them, return to the city, and report that she "fell in battle".

By this point, the DM is understandably very mad. Apparently, the city was interested enough in this NPC that they were monitoring our party with scrying and saw us kill her. We had a price the size of the national debt put on our head.

About this point we break for the night. And we basicly tell her, the next NPC she tries to have join us, the same thing will happen, and on to infinity.

I feel bad about doing it. I consider her a friend. And its about the worst type of action a player can take. But *nothing* else has got the message through. We even stopped playing under her for a while, and she promised she would stop. And she did, for a little while. But not for very long.

But then when you add in the whole "npc was apparently being monitored at all times" crap, and I'm feeling a lot less guilty.

Yes, some of us got hit with alignment infraction. Yes, the characters we used are now basicly doomed, because the arm of the law in her world is VERY long.

And yes, I feel bad doing something like this to a friend.

So basicly, I guess, the point of this long ramble is...

I know I screwed up. I really do. I shouldn't have done what I did. But I can't take it back. And honestly... Even though I know I shouldn't have done it, given the exact same circumstances, I think I would do it again.

The group isn't mad at me. The group sides with me. And I'm not asking for forgiveness. But has anyone else done something similar, in similar circumstances? No other way to get a message through to a DM? Is what I did *that* anathema, or is beating the DM over the head with a point actually required/accepted now and then?

 

[the Jester]

Interesting. Don't think I've experienced anything quite like that in all 20-something years I've been gaming.

I'll reserve judgement for the moment.

 

[der_kluge]

That's hilarious. I guess I can feel your pain. My last DM was kind of rail-roady, and so we suffered at his hands for quite a while. While he didn't bring along fluffy NPCs, he did always manage to put us into positions for which there really was only one way out. I tried my darndest to derail the plot by doing crazy things, but it usually didn't work.

I don't think you should feel bad. You and your friends gave her fair warning. Sure, it wasn't in-character, and you acted on meta-game thinking to control your characters' choices, but it's a game, and you had fun doing.

Sometimes the hardest lessons in life are the best ones.

 

[Tsyr]

Interesting. Don't think I've experienced anything quite like that in all 20-something years I've been gaming.

I'll reserve judgement for the moment.

Oh, feel free to judge me.

It probably wont be any harsher than how I'm judging myself already. I snapped, basicly, and I know I shouldn't have done it.

 

[takyris]

Ditto. Not the most mature way to handle it, but then, not the most mature kind of problem to have to deal with, either. I'd have a hard time staying wise and enlightened if I had to deal with that -- and if I had indeed talked with her beforehand, I'd be similarly inclined to either leave or escalate resistance.

The oddest thing, from my perspective, is that the celestial ranger or whatever she was got beaten at all in the first place. Any good DM-pet would have suddenly summoned a deva or something or been surrounded by a mystical field of force that makes it impossible for you to hurt her. Kind of a pre-emptive version of that scrying deal...

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I know that if I had any problems with my DM, I'd try to resolve them out of game. Seems you tried that, multiple times, to no avail.

The direction the campaign is taking, IMO, is a very bad one. I doubt that the DM will forgive and forget you murdered her NPC. From now on, I envision a campaign where the characters are constantly avoiding the law (ie the DM) which is a game the players can't win.

You mention that you tried bargaining your way out of being accompanied by the NPC. Did your characters say that they refused to be accompanied by the NPC in question?

Instead of trying to "screw the DM over" by killing her pet NPC's, perhaps it would have been better to stop the game right when said NPC showed his pretty little head.

But what is done is done. I doubt that the campaign will last for very long.

Even if I said, at the beginning of my post, that if I had a similar problem with one of my DM's, I'd resolve it out of game, but I have done similar things, with one particular DM (who is my friend). In some of his campaigns, you can't die, and if you do die, it's usually so easy to get raised that dying isn't even a threat anymore. I got pretty sick of that, and for a little while, every character I had was almost suicidal, single-handedly attacking the biggest monster, tackling the greatest perils, and coming out almost unscathed. I've tried doing that, maybe because I matured (unlikely) and maybe because the other players probably were tired of seeing me go off like a madman.

ramblerambleramble

AR

 

[Shallown]

I Have done the same thing with pretty much the same circumstances except different Pet DMnpc and such. I forwarned the after many times begging not to introduce another one that the next NPC had a short life expectance. This particular DM tended to introduce a different combat monster npc that he was infatuated with that month. So the players agreed no more and axed the next one even though it almost cost the whole party in a TPK. It was wrong and juvenile but at the time made us feel better. The Gm got pissed and didn't run for a long time which was okay someone else took up the slack and when he ran again like a year later he did 10 times better job with no NPC pets. I don't know if our extreme behaviour made the difference but I like to think some good came out of being childish on my part.

Now days I would just tell the Gm I don't like it and if they didn't change I would leave. Not much into ultimatumns or threats now days. I love gaming but I'm not suffering for it anymore than the amount of pleasure I get from it.

So don't feel alone. others have made the mistake.

I would take this as a chance to open the lines of communication and explain things to her again. Take the chance that this level of extreme response may open her eyes enough to see how you feel. Treat her as you would want to be treated. Its an easy rule that works and when it fails it usually isn't your fault if you really tried.

Later

 

[Savage Wombat]

First off, let me say I know EXACTLY the kind of player you're describing. And it's not just women that do it. In fan-fic land, it's called a "Mary-Sue character" - and it's annoying as all get out.

The problem, as I see it, is that you didn't just attack an important campaign NPC - you attacked the GM's pet character. Her stand-in in the campaign, the one whom she lives vicariously through. So it's about as bad as killing another PC, especially a player's favorite PC. Some people take that sort of thing personally.

You did try to express your displeasure, at least - but people like that can be very difficult to get through to ("You said you didn't like characters like this, but this character isn't like that because her pet's a ghost, not an angel") and sometimes an object lesson can be necessary. I'd still apologize, though, just to assuage hurt feelings, and see if you can't work something out.

As to the "have I ever done this" thing - not to a DM, no. But I have had players have to do it to other players, who simply would not take a hint. The favorite example being from a friend's quasi-Roman military game, where the punchline was "I've spoken to you twice before about disobeying orders, and endangering your fellow soldiers, but you keep doing it. Guards - take this man, and put him on a cross."

So as you can see, sometimes it takes extreme measures to get through a thick skull. Heck, isn't that the whole point of St. Cuthbert?

 

[jgbrowning]

Everyone snaps at some point.

I've found that even when I know I did what was right and even when I know I'd probably do it again, if I'm not happy with how I did it I'm going to apologize. Even when I think I'm in the right, I have to live up to how I think I should have behaved. I'd just apologize like, "I think I was right, but I could have handled it better" kinda thing.

Almost everything in life, well at least my life, could be handled better than it is. I think part of achieving um... fullness... in being human is constantly striving to improve not only the outcome of your behavior, but the method of your behavior.

At least for me.

joe b.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

<<<wipes tears from his eyes>>>

Okay, now that I've stopped laughing I can comment.

I honestly think you did the right thing... and I am a DM!

When you DM you almost have to think of yourself as a script writer for a popular TV show. The number one rule is that you have to consider your audience and some DMs forget that. The advantage of TV is that if a show you like starts to disappoint you then you can just flip to another channel. If a RPG game starts to disappoint you then unfortunately you either have to deal with it, confront the DM and possibly hurt their feelings, or leave the game entirely. If some children's show writer got hired on to write for Star Trek and turned it into a Sci-Fi children's show with a large purple dinosaur as the captain of the Enterprise they'd completely lose viewership from their dedicated fans. Your DM was running an adventure that she might have enjoyed playing in but she didn't consider the real audience... the rest of the group. Hopefully she will learn from her mistake and start listening to the group when you tell her what is and isn't working. If she doesn't feel that she can deliver what is requested then she ought to consider stepping down as DM.