So I was more or less kicked out of my D&D group

[drnuncheon]

Why is it that so many people - mythago and tburdett most recently - keep trying to argue about just ditching a gaming session?

Everybody knows that's rude.
Everybody agrees that's rude.
But it's not relevant, because it's not what happened.

It's very frustrating to see people saying things like "pardon me all to Limbo if I do, indeed, believe you owe your GM or your fellow players more than gracing them with your occasional presence at whim" or "it's a game that relies heavily upon the participation of all players, not just those who decide to show up regularly", when DC has said often that he missed once, and that he was polite enough to inform the DM beforehand.

Now, either you take that at face value - in which case all of that ranting is irrelevant - or you basically assume that DC is a liar. Continually comparing this situation to someone who regularly ditches a game without warning is, quite frankly, both rude and insulting to DC. I find it incredibly ironic that the people who are behaving this way are doing so while they talk about politeness and consideration.

If someone calls you, once, before the game, and says "I can't make it", is that 'inconsiderate'? Isn't that player trying to minimize the inconvenience that they are causing you? Sounds pretty considerate to me.

Politeness and understanding works both ways. If the guy's really looking forward to Rare Event X - whatever that event is, whether it's a date or a visit from the folks or even a rare chance to spend time alone, then are you really being considerate by saying "No, you have to come game or we'll hate you, kill your character, burn the sheet, urinate on the remains, and mail it to your Senator"?

Again: everybody agrees that ditching without telling anyone is rude.
Everyone agrees that ditching constantly is rude (even if you tell them ahead of time).
But not showing up one time, after calling to tell the DM - we're not in 'burn-at-the-stake' territory here. We can't even see the border.

J

 

[hong]

You want good things Ive done?

[...]

I always tried to make good interesting characters not monster slayers (which is really what was needed in his dungeon crawls)

Okay, stop RIGHT THERE.

It sounds like you and the rest of the group had a fundamental disagreement on campaign tone and flavour. You like playing complex characters, while they like killing monsters and taking their stuff. Now these are both valid styles of play, but they don't always mesh well, especially if one or both sides isn't willing to compromise.

It also sounds like you and the DM (and maybe some of the other players) had a personality clash. If there had not been such a clash, I don't see why he would want to drop you over what sounds like a couple of (relatively) innocuous incidents. I will agree that the DM could have handled things more honestly and without being so evasive.

Don't sweat it, it happens. Sometimes people just don't get on well with each other. If you hadn't been dropped now, chances are you'd have gotten bored or annoyed enough eventually to leave on your own.

 

[tburdett]

Why is it that so many people - mythago and tburdett most recently - keep trying to argue about just ditching a gaming session?

Everybody knows that's rude.
Everybody agrees that's rude.
But it's not relevant, because it's not what happened.

If you read the first message in this thread you will find ...

"Well a week later I decide I'd like to spend a quiet evening at home for a change and call up the group to tell them I wont be there tonight."

He didn't call in advance, he called to let them know that he wouldn't be there THAT NIGHT. You may consider calling the same day, or an hour beforehand, an act of consideration, I DON'T. At that point it is to late to change any plans that have been made.

If there had been an emergency or other UNAVOIDABLE situation I would be extremely understanding and feel sympathetic towards the player. There was no emergency, he just decided at the last minute that he didn't want to go. Selfish and inconsiderate.

I'm starting to wonder if the people who are defending him are doing so because they identify with, and engage in, similar inconsiderate behaviors?

 

[Broken Fang]

I can't believe I'm responding but waht the heck:

So if he called say at 2pm and the game doesn't start till 6pm (though it really doesn't start till 7pm)...thats not enough time. He did at least call, as opposed to just not showing up. What I then want to know os how much time is required for "advanced notice"? 24 hours...48...more? Do they sign a "social contract" that says "we will notify the GM x days ahead so that if I cannot show up he has enough time to change his well thought out plans"? I wouldn't complain at all...at least he called...so I have to do some stuff on the fly, big deal its part of the job.

 

[La Bete]

"Well a week later I decide I'd like to spend a quiet evening at home for a change and call up the group to tell them I wont be there tonight."

He didn't call in advance, he called to let them know that he wouldn't be there THAT NIGHT. You may consider calling the same day, or an hour beforehand, an act of consideration, I DON'T.

Good catch tburdett. I was under the impression that DC called the previous night.

However its not particularly relevant. As a GM, I would find being given that little notice quite rude as well. But I'm not DC's GM, and neither are you, so the 'social contract' (bleagh) that we operate in our groups do not apply.

DC on the other hand, given the behaviour of his fellow players, clearly assumed that giving no notice was acceptable in their 'social contract', and from that also assumed that calling to advise his lack of availability was being quite courteous.

I'm starting to wonder .... edited for valid point below.QUOTE]

May I suggest a little judicious editing before Henry starts administering the kitten? Suggesting that those who disagree with you tend towards inconsiderate behaviour is a little... rude.

 

[tburdett]

There's would be no reason to edit now, as you've quoted the portion that you would probably want edited.

However, what you quoted was put forth as a question, not an accusation. If it's taken as the latter, I apologize.

The entire discussion seems to revolve around whether or not the actions in question were appropriate. Each person can only answer that question from their own perspective. What he did would not be acceptable in our group.

I do not know him or his fellows, and we only have his account of what happened. I do not have, and have no way of obtaining, all of the facts that are relevant in determining whether or not his actions were appropriate for his group. No one here has those facts.

 

[mythago]

drmuncheon, read in context. My ranting was directed at the fellow who thinks ordinary rules of social politeness do not apply when "it's just a GAME." If you'd bothered to read more of the thread, it's simply not true that EVERYBODY agrees blowing people off is rude.

it is expected that you won't show up every session because you have a wife and kids and a job and those things take precedece over D&D.

Absolutely. But the issue is not really about the importance of D&D--it's about ordinary politeness. When one of my players tells me he can't be there in two weeks, that's cool. When one player calls me the morning of game because her kid is sick, that's also cool.

Not Cool is failing to show minimal social courtesies because "it's just a GAME."

 

[La Bete]

There's would be no reason to edit now, as you've quoted the portion that you would probably want edited.

Quite true. Corrected. It is quite interesting that these sort of discussions often end up with everyone talking past each other.

You are quite correct about the rudeness of not advising the GM, and the gentleman who had the view of 'its just a game' was also quite correct. In fact, pretty much all the postings on this topic were 'correct' in one way or another - in their context.

Which of course, we are unable to see, stuck as we are feverishly typing at a keyboard.

In any case, the prevailing view seems to be to wish DC better luck with his next group, and I might echo that viewpoint and leave it at that.

 

[jdavis]

drmuncheon, read in context. My ranting was directed at the fellow who thinks ordinary rules of social politeness do not apply when "it's just a GAME." If you'd bothered to read more of the thread, it's simply not true that EVERYBODY agrees blowing people off is rude.



Absolutely. But the issue is not really about the importance of D&D--it's about ordinary politeness. When one of my players tells me he can't be there in two weeks, that's cool. When one player calls me the morning of game because her kid is sick, that's also cool.

Not Cool is failing to show minimal social courtesies because "it's just a GAME."

And once again that is a judgement call, give a universal all inclusive definition of minimal social courtesies, even no showing without any warning for no reason at all is ok in many groups, heck it is expected in many groups. The tone the post in question used was harsh, but there have been just as many post that made it sound like missing a game is a hanging offense regardless of the reason. The term social contract has been thrown all around not to mention Miss Maners was quoted earlier. Since when did you have to RSVP to play D&D, to some people this is no more than a simple game, some people play this game the same as getting to gather to shoot some basketball on a Saturday afternoon. Show if you want to play, no big deal. This seems to be the situation as was given, in this situation calling ahead was well beyond what anybody else would do, whether he called ahead 10 days or ten minutes before the game started. What might be a personal slight and a horrible mistep to some might be a act of total consideration to others. Several people have taken personal offense to even the idea that somebody would not show up to game and that is what is just nuts about this, how can you be offended by a action that wasn't offensive in the context given? Cutting somebody off in traffic is rude, cutting somebody off in the Indy 500 is race car driving, it is the expected behavior. They are both the act of driving a car but you have to keep them in the proper context. Failing to show up because "it's just a game" is fine as long as the people involved think it's fine.

He didn't call in advance, he called to let them know that he wouldn't be there THAT NIGHT. You may consider calling the same day, or an hour beforehand, an act of consideration, I DON'T.

Just this last Sunday one of our friends didn't show up, he sent a e-mail the next day saying "sorry I didn't make it". He didn't give any explination, he didn't go into detail why, heck he e-mailed us the day after we had already gamed. Was this rude? Well I was happy that nothing happended to him, heck I found it curtious to say he was sorry at all. He is a friend I have known for 15 years I am not going to totally change my impression of him based on this one incident if I did then I'm not much of a friend to all the sudden dislike him for missing one session of a game, If he had sent no e-mail at all and never said he was sorry or explained anything then it still wouldn't matter he has been a close friend for 15 years and this is one silly little game of D&D. In our group not showing up is perfectly acceptable, one of my friends disappeared for 3 weeks, his computer was broken and they were moving, it was no big deal, our response "was you should of called we could of helped you move", not "how dare you break your social contract and not show up to game". I have known the guy for over 20 years, my friendship with him is a lot more important than getting mad because "Bungo the Halfling" wasn't around to search for traps. Getting together with friends is a luxury at this point in my life, instead of being mad when somebody doesn't make it we are happy when they actually do.

I am not trying to be rude or insult the way anybody games, heck I wish I could game a more serious game but for me and my friends it is just not in the cards. No showing in our game is just fine, heck we expect it, I prefer to get notice but it is not a requirement, if you can make it then I'm happy to see you, if not well maybe next week. Please don't imply any universal rules of courtesy or politeness, there are no universal rules, it only matters that the people in each individual group agree, outside of that it doesn't matter at all.

 

[Gizzard]

In our group not showing up is perfectly acceptable, one of my friends disappeared for 3 weeks, his computer was broken and they were moving, it was no big deal...

OK, but in DC's case it turned out to be a big deal. (Or at least the DM used it as a pretext for making a big deal.)

Theres not much sense in arguing that its not a big deal to you (and equally, there is not much sense in the other side arguing that it always is a big deal!) since the original subject was whether DC got the shaft or not.

And getting back to DC's case, there is always some sort of implied social contract. It may not have been a fair one, it may have run something along the lines of, "You can keep playing, but remember that I am pissed about some out-of-game stuff and I will give you Da Boot if you give me half a reason." Fair or not, DC gave the DM that half reason he had been looking for and bad stuff ensued.

On the plus side, probably everyone is better out of each others hair for a while.